Ferrari Classiche - Which Camp Are You In?

There is plenty of debate about the substance of Classiche. No doubt, as Ferrari puts greater emphasis on this business unit, it will have greater influence on the Ferrari culture, both in the world of restoration and certification. Please take the poll and weigh-in.

 

Neutral?

I think the program is fine, but I don’t see the value (to the owner) of a yearly recertification.

 

My opinion is this is a nice offer and keepsake but once the car is out of the service/certificate then it is a keepsake/trinket...unless owners want to show their cars are all factory with no aftermarket items— so for shoes or sales.
This was discussed in length here before.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

Shows and sales


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

I chose the last one because i've read some comments from experienced members here that in some cases Classiche department is wrong. I, personally, after seeing 3445GT coming out with a wrong nose after the accident it had, i started having doubts about the work there.

 

No category for me - I think it started as a great idea but is already so corrupted it'll end up causing more problems than it solves.

 

Not taking issue with your comment, but I’m curious to hear more. Why do you say it is corrupted? And, are you referring to Classiche restorations, certification or both?

 

The whole thing is silly. Porsche has it right. For a few hundred bucks, Porsche will tell you how the car left the factory. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. There are stories about a GTO that had been wrecked more than once. Ferrari said, "Sorry, unless we rebuild the car, we can't certify it, a frigging Ferrari 250 GTO. I dunno. If you are that insecure about your car, go for it.

 

Having aftermarket items does not disqualify a car from Classiche certification but the aftermarket items do have to be to the original factory specification.

 

certification - do you follow the vintage thread on there? Some 'interesting' stories... I probably should clarify that I don't mean corrupted as in money, but there are so many unknowns and variables (in the early cars) that experts can be wrong, and squeaky wheels may get greased.

 

I always wondered... what are the prices of these certifications and restorations?

 

The cost varies depending on the model. Generally, the earlier the model the more it will cost. 328's, for example, are just under $4500.

 

True that. Totally agree with you.

 

As for certification - I'm a big fan. The red books I've seen are very nice and rather comprehensive, and it is a great guide for the future of the car. I just had my car photographed for certified and I'm proud that it will be soon. It's actually very cool. Porsche may "tell you" what is correct. And, how does a Porsche owner know for certain that what they are told is correct? I mean, I guess. And what credibility does it have? Like it or not, Classiche certification has weight and it is just growing.

As for restorations, I have heard anecdotes about cars having certain things that are incorrect. I guess these stories may be true, and maybe not. From what I understand, these cases have involved early models, many of which have been frequently damaged and modified throughout the years. So, if the owner and the Classiche collaborate, to some degree there is validation in the work (considering that it is Classiche who is performing the job). It seems that they are getting a lot of seriously impressive cars going there for restorations. It would lead me to believe that they and their vendors are doing quality work.

 

Ferrari only became interested in having anything to do with the vintage cars when they realized that they could make a lot of money $$$$ off of the owners.

 

I never understood this argument. I seem to hear it a lot. So what? Why shouldn't they? They are a business. They own the brand. It is their heritage. They birthed the cars. To many, they are the most valid institution to certify and restore them. One can debate if they are doing a good job, but they would be fools not to institute Classiche.

 

Its just another cash cow for Ferrari.

Of course we will all buy into it to be cool.

 

You're joking, right? We're talking Germans v. Italians. True me on this, if Porsche says car such and so left the factory with this and that, you can count on that being accurate.

 

There is so very much to this.... really a lot, and it could fill a small book, maybe a big one (but not a red one), and I'm not going to explain it or write it here. Believe what you want to. I'll just say that I'm basing my statement on numerous in depth discussions, and our observations....all with many friends and clients who are all owners of the very, very high value vintage Ferrari's....road and race cars. Classiche has unfortunately become a necessary evil for some of them.

 

I totally respect your views. I’m well aware of the reasons why some (primarily owners of the highest end vintage cars) hate Classiche. I’m sure some of their reasoning is valid. The point I made was reacting to your statement about Ferrari establishing the department to make money. Again, argue the merits of Classiche, which is fine, but why wouldn’t they create this new revenue stream? It’s more than valid and wise on their part. They’re not running a charity. I believe it’s a fairly safe guess that most of those who own these extremely rare and expensive Ferrari’s are very wealthy individuals. Of all people, they should respect the concept of creating a vibrant business unit. I just don’t understand the “money grab” point. If they don’t like Classiche at all, fine. Or, do they feel it should be a free service?

 

$4,500 is 10% +- of what my 308 is worth.

I would pay $450.00 but $4,500 is an outrageous rip-off

 

When they rebuild entire cars, with replacement blocks, its absurd, but ok as long as declared, which I am not sure it is. Once they went into yearly recertifications it became obscene.

In some way because ferraris are owned by "collectors" as "art" the whole thing makes sense. It also points to how bogus ferrari in genral has become, I mean who really sues and rives the cars, and if you did really drive your car, then classiche is sort of stupid, other than a yardstick upon purchase.

Ferrari = handbags for wealthy men. Classiche = right stiching on label.

 

The right option isn't there for me. I DETEST Classiche and all this originality nonsense but it isn't because I think the work is poorly done.

Originality is pretty much a one way street. If you take off part of a car and later on you put it back on again then it is still original but if you replace it with a new bit that looks roughly the same then it isn't. If a car crashes in a race and the damage is repaired, perhaps with a newer specification of part, then that is part of the history. History starts the day a car leaves the Factory it doesn't end then.

The other day I went to the exhibition at the London Design Museum and there was the ex-Peter Collins 250 PF Cabriolet. Now the most significant thing about that car is that Peter Collins fitted disc brakes yet, as the adjacent label explained, the car was converted back to drum brakes in a recent "restoration". Why on earth would you do that? For the avoidance of doubt, I am not saying that particular example was down to Classiche but rather I am saying that it has helped to foster this whole mind-set that the only thing that counts is whether a car looks like it did the day it left the Factory.

For me, what makes one car more interesting than another is the things it has done, the places it has been, the races it has won and lost and the people who have owned and driven it. Audi did a rather wonderful thing with their recent Le Mans winners in displaying them at subsequent events still with the dirt and detritus from 24 hours of racing. That is showing the history and what it had achieved much more than the same car looking pristine could ever do. Much more too, than a red book and a tacky plastic badge stuck in the car.

Surely the irony of the whole thing (which, as we all know, is solely there as a revenue stream for Ferrari) is that they tell you a piece of your car is not original and in order to get certified it needs to be replaced. So you end up removing a part that might have been made in Maranello 50 years ago and you replace it with another part that was maybe made in Maranello (or quite possibly somewhere else entirely since many of the parts for older cars are made elsewhere anyway) a few weeks ago. And now your car is more original!

I'm quite happy for Ferrari to make money but I cry that, in doing so through Classiche, so much true history has been lost from some wonderful cars, to end up with Disneyland versions supposedly "restored" but in reality just pastiches of what they once were.

Jonathan

 

I don't know if the story is true but I've read that the Dunlop disc brakes that the then recently killed Peter Collins had fitted to 250 GT PF Cabriolet 0655GT were removed and put on Hawthorn's 246 F1 for the 1958 Italian Grand Prix to help him win the championship. I also don't know if the car had discs or drums installed to replace the removed discs.

 

Great write-up with a compelling argument. All good thoughts. Still, plenty of people that own some of the most prized Ferrari's in the world are sending them to Classiche for partial or complete restorations. I was amazed by the cars that were in the shop when I visited in May. Not doubting some of the stories I hear, but I wonder if they are highly unique exceptions rather than the norm, particularly given that many of the early cars were parsed together rather haphazardly. Who even knows what originality is in some cases? I'm guessing, not even Classiche. In such situations I would rather have Ferrari's interpretation over an independent shop.