Countach LP400 Vintage Photos

Chassis numbers were pre-allocated on paper by sales department against the order number before the cars were constructed.
Order 151 was pre-allocated 1120302 but was later amended to 1121002 because a new sequence 1121 was adopted for the LP400S. The same applied all the way to Order 169 which was pre-allocated 1120338 on paper and was later amended to 1121038.
So if 1120338 had also appeared in a telegram perhaps somebody might have concluded there were 19 extra LP400...Nothing to see here move along please...

 

Whenever I hear or see the expression "nothing to see here", that's when I know it's time to take a closer look

Seriously, thank you for sharing the details of what happened.

That said, you cannot blame anyone for drawing their own conclusions in the light of a tangible document, letter or Telex stating higher LP400 chassis numbers, prior to receiving the explanation as you have just laid out. Not everyone is party to the inside information that you have, and Lamborghini are renowned for muddying the waters when it comes to numbers, as we know from the Miura days also. Now that the received wisdom has been bestowed upon us, we can amend our understanding, as we are all learning all the time. At the end of the day, many people who love Countachs could care less about any of this, but it is nice to understand what happened.

 

Just to be completely clear, none of this has come from within the company, indeed I doubt very much if they know it themselves. It is the product of research into the processes and the numbering systems employed over the early years.

 

Indeed. I can tell you the factory never really knew what the previous production figures truly were, as too many management changes occurred back in the days.
Now, 4 decades later, a tiny group of fanatics have decided to combine their knowledge and soon, hopefully, true detailed figures may be published. With or without the involvement of the factory, that is the question.
Some of us are lucky to have (partially or fully) access to archive documents.
Yet, analysing and sharing information is key here.

Without braking my word about "secrets" I've been lucky to hear and promised to keep, I'll share now some "personal conclusions", that you are free to acknowledge / doubt / criticise...

So, how many LP400 were really built?
Answer is 149 cars built, 150 sold.
Production prototype #1120001 excluded.
So yes, one of the 150 VINs was never attributed (#1120258) and one more was created for a broken car rebuilt and sold "new-again" (#1120007).

About LP400S, there were actually more of them built than what the known archives suggest. At least 3 LP400 were rebuilt as factory-LP400S (as opposed to private conversions).
And no, #1121468 is not the last one. Some more LP400S were still built and sold at the very beginning of the 5000S production (like #1121483 and #1121485).

I hope someday, the material (proofs) leading to such conclusions can be shared publicly.

 

Someone within Lamborghini in the period must have known this numbering system, after all, it was created (and amended) by an individual or individuals employed by Lamborghini at that time!

The challenge of course is understanding this material later on.

In the period, of course certain individuals @ the factory know exactly what was going on within their own walls, how could they not?! The question is, whether the records & books were accrate, and/or truthful.

We all know that for economic, tax, government grants and other logistical reasons, the records & books were, shall we say, often adjusted. Yet again, this reminds me of the late great TC Brown who studied car factories of the era and declared: "there are lies, damned lies, and then there are car manufacturer's statistics", and I quoted him in my Miura book http://joesackeyclassics.com/authored-books/the-lamborghini-miura-bible/ The management changes simply made the records & books even more difficult to interpret clearly.

Its no secret that there are multiple sources of old factory archives that are being shared in modern times by a number of individuals previously employed by Lamborghini or affiliated with the company, based on materials obviously (and perhaps thankfully) taken or rescued from the factory itself. These informal sources have contributed greatly in recent years to understanding what happened in the production era.

My personal opinion is that there should be no 'secrets' and all material should be culled and best as possible and formally published internationally. The notion that anyone will be offended if what happened 50, 40 or even 30 years ago is revealed, is just silly, and from a legal standpoint, those entities from that period no longer exist. Very recently I spoke to Patrick Mimran who ran the factory from 1980 to 1987, and several times we candidly discussed some of the goings-on of the period. You really think he cares about full disclosure 30 years after the fact? Most well-meaning people just want the story to be told fully, all the smoke-and-mirrors doesn't help anyone. Interestingly, for every one I encounter who thinks they know Lamborghini so-called secrets from the era, I encounter two more who know even more secrets! As an aside, the notion of sharing that many experts I encounter have is more of a one-way street rather than a two-way street, as it relates to their particular areas of interest. Anyway, the only thing really appreciated these days is an effort at full disclosure, which means an openly published work.

When I first published my Miura book 10 years ago someone said to me I shouldn't say certain things - I paid no attention whatsoever, because I felt its more important for information from a legitimate source to be shared than withheld. So, I say go ahead an publish a properly written, illustrated, imaged & edited book on the subject, don't fear, nobody from Lamborghini's past will care, and everyone in the present who loves the cars will be thankful! They can draw their own conclusions and acknowledge/doubt/criticize as they wish, but at least you will have published something, which is more than most people ever do.

 

I was referring to the present day company. Of course the Countach numbering system was known in period. The LP400 series simply got amended with the introduction of the LP400S...

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That distinction makes all the difference.

 

Alright. I guess I wasn't specific enough. Let me reformulate:
Of course, in the period the factory knew what they were doing, day by day, month after month...
What I wrote is they "never really knew what the previous production figures truly were".
Not because they didn't keep records of production, but simply because nobody cared about the previous production figures!
Like, for exemple in 1978 / 1979, they didn't know nor care how many LP400 had been made exactly.
And in 1982 again, nobody could tell precisely what the LP400S figures were like.

There have been so many changes in management back then, and since the situation was never financially secured until the Mimran brothers, the factory only cared about their weekly/monthly orders to survive.
They simply looked at the last order number for each type of car, and wrote it on a piece of paper to keep it as the "official production records":
Last LP400 is order n°150? OK there were 150 LP400.
Last LP400S order before the 5000S entered production is n°385. OK, 385 - 150 = 235 LP400S
Wrong!

When the Swedish car magazine Bilsport had asked the factory in 1979 what the lamborghini production figures were, here's what they received for the Countach:
_Countach: 220.
_Countach S: 27.
Total bulls***!

When Jean-François Marchet asked the same for his book with Peter Coltrin in 1981, that's what they got:
_1974: 23. _1975: 60. _1976: 27. _1977: 40
_1978: 16. _1979: 40. _1980: 120. _1981: 88.
Looks better?
No. Except for 1978: All incorrect!

What are the official numbers at the factory Museo nowadays?
_152 LP400 & 237 LP400S
Do you guess? Innacurate!

Why?
Just like P300V8 keeps saying: "The number of chassis numbers does not equal the number of cars!"
It needs people to investigate, to check ALL the order/production/sale lists to come up with real and verified data.
And yes, it is possible. Hopefully before the end of this year, we will publish those correct figures for the LP400 & LP400S.

 

Oh, Joe. You know I share your idea completely.
There should be no secret.
But, there are.
Not from the factory. From individuals who consider some documents and information, either given to or found by them, must be kept in the shadow.
Some enthusiasts are willing to share everything only to those they consider as purely-passion-oriented as they feel they are, and not willing their secrets to be used by others for business or in the web media.
No matter the exact reason, I shall, I must, I will respect that.

There are many silent Lamborghini fanatics checking this forum and other internet pages. Some of them have an enormous knowledge, some only have a few interesting secrets about cars or production... Yet they won't share. No matter how silly it seems, some information are never coming up to us.
Would you believe I heard only last month of somebody who went to the factory in 1979, and saw the original Countach LP500 prototype, still painted red and damaged from the MIRA crash-test, sitting on a trailer attached to some Range Rover!? That's the last time someone ever saw the LP500 at the factory!
Dude even took a photo of it! But no, that shall remain secret. His own bl**dy secret!
I also have that very good friend in Japan: In 1978 he had seen the legendary odd number Countach 1120007. That was actually the very first Countach he saw in his whole life, when he was just 12 years old. He took lots of shots of the car! Guess what, I am the only non-japanese person he ever shared the pics with.
And if I happen to share/publish those photos without his agreement, I know that would break the trust forever, and terminate our friendship as well.
There are a dozen more examples like these I could mention.
In the end, I shall never forget most of my knowledge about Lamborghini comes from people who have given me their trust, shared information, photos, factory material, annecdotes... and they still do, as they know they can trust my discretion.
However, rest assured I wil share everything else possible. My passion is extravert and believes in sharing!
Oh, and let's not forget what Jean Racine said: "There are no secrets that time does not reveal."

 

We look forward to that!

So true.

Those who think they have secrets about these cars that really matter in the grand scheme of things ought to lighten up, time marches on.

 

LP500 in 1979 sounds fantastic, to say at least.

 

LP400 #1120114
about 30 years ago...
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Looks like an 037 parked next to it as well!

 

What a sight!

LP400 #1120082 & #1120176
at Ciclet Automobiles, Bagneux, France
September 1990

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You may noticed the different color for the sidelight / blinker units.
Depending on the market, the blinker part was either clear (Italy, Switzerland, USA, Saudi Arabia, Persia) or orange (Germany, UK, Australia, Lebanon).
1120082 was sold new to Japan, and 1120176 to France. Strangely enough, you could find both types on the LP400 that went to Japan and France!

 

Gold Countach - wow, wow, wow!!! Thanks for posting Victor, and if you have more please post them.

 

1120176, what an original livery, fab.

 

There you go!

1120176 when new at the factory, February 1976
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1120176 at Palais de l'Automobile, Brussels, Belgium in the late 1980s...
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Later auctioned in Paris on September 20th 1989 for 1'510'000 French Francs!
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Assumptions... Confusions... Untold stories...
Time to reveal this to you all:

For 4 decades, this LP400 chassis #1120002 was considered the first production Countach...
while it was, in fact, the 3rd Countach prototype, and the true "production prototype"
(as opposed to #1120001: the "development prototype", and the LP500: the "original prototype").
Built during Autumn 1973, kept and improved until Spring 1974, then sold after Geneva Motor Show to Achilli Motors, for one lucky Milanese.

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Totally agree.

FWIW I always considered it to be this way, if you look at 1120002 closely, it is materially different from production LP400 in a number of ways.

The expression 'first production Countach' is something that came about possible because the car was sold via a typical concessionaire as a regular production car would be.

My description of the same thing goes something like this:

LP500 - Countach Prototype
1120001 - Countach LP400 Prototype
1120002 - Countach LP400 Production Prototype.

 

I must say, I love this image, the car's livery, everything, thank you for posting it!

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In my view the 01 that precedes 01/1120001 in [some of] the records signifies a prototype chassis and a preceding consecutive number ie 1/1120002, 2/1120004 etc signifies a production chassis. This does not preclude 2/1120002 from being a 'production prototype' as this concerns manufacturing techniques. Further, the body panels would have been made over the same wooden buck and I would have expected there to have been up to five 'trial production' cars, explaining the variations in the roof panel vents.

 

I don't know if the date of these framed images is correct but they are part of Stanzani's collection. For me it is fascinating to see that the wooden buck was used as a template during the construction of Guerra's jig used to productionise the Countach.

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In view of the resounding silence following my post , a precedent was set with the Silhouette where 001/40000 and 01/40002 were prototypes based on modified P300 chassis/body unit and 1/40006 [my car] and 2/40004 were the first two production cars.

 

Also note the project 'confidentiality' provided by the panels between the pillars!