I went in for a 5k major, it cost XXXX more and here's what happened"

The CAT temp monitoring system serves a very important purpose. Yes, some of the components design may be less than ideal, but when the system has a failure, it's best to properly diagnose the failure and repair it. Removing the system can be very dangerous.

 

Agreed starting Friday right lol



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Starting today, I will stop debating with people about doing timing belts through the gas tank drop method. Its, ah benefits are well known.

 

Yes, and I believe there is a system under development that has not yet been brought to market that will give true temperature readings as a means of diagnosing timing.

 

Ill bet I could fix your Speedo and suspension light.

Ill do it for 5k or less.

I'm in kalamazoo, Cauley does a winter special on service. But thats like 5k.
Did cauley quote you 15k?

 

Yuuup these cars are very prone to EGT inconsistencies that can lead to catastrophic failures fast.
If my headers come out this goes in said vehicle with a probe in each cyl upstream and couple at the end. Very useful while tuning.
MGL Avionics TC-3 12 channel.


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Thank you for sharing your views. Seemed like no one was believing me


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It's just about priorities. If you're short on cash and want only to replace the belt (and no adjustments) - tank out method is what you're stuck with.

I've been on the receiving end of both methods, and I think we all agree that the best thing to do though it to drop the whole thing out so you can do *ALL* the adjustments/service requirements of a 30K major.

 

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I can't imaging that unless the timing is way off. Advancing the intake cam, for example, will usually increase low end torque and reduce top end torque. But this isn't just by advancing a degree or two. More like a 5 or 10 degree advance.

EGT is more a function of A/F ratio and load than it is of valve timing. Lets' look at it realistically. 1 HP = 0.71 BTU/sec. Let's assume a constant engine thermal efficiency of 33% (and that's high). That means you must combust sufficient fuel to generate 2.15 BTU/sec. If only 0.71 BTU/sec go into generating HP, the other 1.44 BUT/sec go into heating the engine, coolant and out the exhaust. Much of it out the exhaust. Double the HP output and you double the heat load on the headers. Why do you think headers glow red when an engine is held at full power on a dyno?

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Pretty much, you know that car with headers replaced have been beat on. That's why one of my criteria when I was buying a 355 was that it must have OEM headers that were in good shape. I.e. the car was not driven hard frequently.

But of course, I'm just a grumpy old man and no one will listen to me.

 

And ignition timing but must consider the difference in EGT and CAT temps. EGT may be in check (at header) but if you have more (unintended) valve overlap you will end up with more scavenging/unburnt hydrocarbons the cats have to deal with which may cause them to overheat.

Non-cat 348 for example the valve timing ends up with 2 more degrees overlap. 2 degrees doesn't sound like much but still the difference in spec between cat/non cat.

 

Did two majors at local dealer, both went well over $10k, the base price is around $6500 for full major with proper cam timing and 4 way alignment of suspension. Some of the typical "while you are in there" items that cropped up (these items were not on both services, only one or the other): Water pump rebuild, removing and resealing all covers on transaxle, refinishing cam covers, replace cv boots, replace all coolant hoses, rebush shifter mechanism, replace motor mounts, fuel injectors removed, clean and resealed, adjust and fine tune throttle bodies....can't remember all the other little stuff...but these are old cars, so none was unexpected or a surprise.

 

For me, there are a lot of questionable items in there. I would want to see that they needed work/replacement.

 

If I treated my Ferrari like my F150 I would never drop the engine. To each person their Ferrari means something differant. We all need to understand that. For the guy who its just a car to rip around in and have fun for a while he will not care so much if the bumper is scratched a bit, if wheels look new, if windshield has a crack or rock chip.
I changed my windshield with a crack that most could not see, but I could. I also enjoy telling people its a 99 and they say "oh I thought it was a 2016 or 17"
I would never spend the kind of money on my ford.
That being said I do think that the standard for Ferrari should be somewhat higher but thats just me.

Its because of what I would call sub standard services that as time progresses the differential between great cars and poor cars will get even bigger.

 

I'd like to hear from someone with DIRECT experience about how, after dropping the gas tank (no easy feat in itself), the right side cambelt cover can be removed. I found the AC lines in the way, seemingly making it impossible to remove the cover. Maybe I overlooked something.

 

I'm all for making my cars right. If something needs service, it will get it. But, I'm not going to start replacing parts just coz. Nothing wrong, nothing to repair.

 

[QUOTE="johnk..., post: 145722671, member: 8967"

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I suspect very few have original headers unkess under 10k miles

 

Original headers on my '98 with just over 30K on the clock. Engine out due next year and I'll have to inspect them at that time.

 

So as per john do you drive it hard ever. Or did you put aftermarket cats on it. What do you think the secrete is for your car.
Mine had 12 k I think when I bought it and the headers were replaced under warranty fro what I was told.

 

Original cats failed around 24k miles and were replaced with aftermarket cats (original cats recored by Fabspeed). No track time on the car and the previous owner was very easy on her. Can't say I'm particularly hard either but not babying her.

 

Personally, I use my car for touring. I typically shift around 6k. Seldom over 7k. Never been above 8k. I don't think I have ever just mashed the throttle. I apply throttle in a continuous motion to achieve the acceleration I desire. I don't bang gears. I try to match RPM on up and down shifts. I drive it fast, but "gently". When I got the car one cat was hollow and one was rattling. I replaced them with Nouvalari cats to pass CT emissions. I smoke test the headers each spring. Car now has about 26k miles on it. None of the records indicate headers were ever replaced.

 

Come on, John - have some fun

 

I still have original headers on my car. Bought it with 11,500 miles now about 14500, stock cats and bypass valve was removed.

The cats were failing (dust/cat material coming out but not melted) so I put on high flow cats and deleted secondary cats. (and re-installed bypass valve). I drive it very nicely until it is completely up to temp. After that a bit more ah, spirited and usually will find a good reason to run it up through a few gears 1rpm short of the rev limiter.

Headers seem fine so far but will be interesting to see their condition when I remove them. Wouldn't be surprised to see they are all deformed as you commonly see.

 

Take your pick. Engine out, belts and fluids changed. That's what we mean by a "major" isn't it? Of course, it's easy to spend more if other things need doing while you're in there...

https://www.ferrari-servicing.com/services/ferrari-f355-servicing/
http://www.qvlondon.co.uk/service/4569838548
http://www.ferrarimaserati.co.uk/services.htm

 

I think the robbers have derailed this train, my friend. They probably disconnect the AC system anyway.

 

A "major" service is different than a cam belt service, which can be done per the service manual at any of a number of varying service points. Per the service manual, the first "major" service that requires replacement of the cam belt, establishes the scope of the service as follows:

Required:
- Engine oil, filter
- Camshaft drive belt
- Fuel filters
- Charcoal canister
- O2 sensors

Inspect and replace/service as necessary:
- Cooling system components
- Cooling system connections and hoses
- Ignition system, wires and connections
- Fuel injection system
- Crankcase emissions system
- Air injection system
- Fuel evap system
- Gearbox/differential oil
- Brakes/clutch fluid
- Brake system, hoses, calipers, hand brake
- Braking friction surfaces, pads, rotors
- Steering components, joint protection/gaters on rack, levers, driveshaft
- Battery
- Starter motor drain, alt charge
- Chassis inspection, protection

If you're doing the bare minimum required, I could see $5k. However, the official scope is well beyond that, and the older these cars get, the more likely those secondary items require addressing. I'd imagine the F355 is similar.