Still on the fence 360 vs. 430 - a question about repair surprises

I am still on the fence regarding buying a 360 manual vs. a F1 430.

I could be happy with either.

It seems to me that people often cite significant repair surprises with the 360 (> $15K) vs. a 430.

Thoughts?

Out of curiosity, what was your most expensive repair surprise?

I want a coupe, so repairs related to convertibles are not an issue.

Obvious issues like the clutch, tires, brakes, and maintenance are expected.

 

I would say the biggest expense between the two is the timing belts on the 360. Per Ferrari and the 30k service, the timing belts are to be changed every 3 years or 30k miles. Depending on who does the work it could range from $14,000 at the dealer to $4,000 at an independent shop to $2,000 by doing it yourself. Since the 430 doesn't have belts, you save that expense but pay more initially for the 430.

 

You should have an extra $10K in cash on hand regardless of which car you get (I had an extra $25K). Pre-owned Ferraris are treacherous to buy, no matter if you get records and a PPI.

Nobody likes to hear this, but there is an element of luck involved, and only money can cure bad luck with a Ferrari purchase. Enough money and the right mechanic can fix anything, though.

I decided on a 360 stick versus the 430 F1. Even my dealership only charges $3,999.00 for a belt service, so don't let that be the deciding factor. An independent might be half that.

Oh, and if the car is advertised as having had a recent belt service, make sure they replaced the tensioners too. Lots of sellers shortcut that.

Happy shopping!

 

Personally, the big-bill-surprise-probability is not sufficiently different to let that determine my choice, nor is the slightly higher maintenance cost of the 360 having belts vs. chain, and that delta is not that big. I would base my choice on 3-pedal vs F1 preference, and preference for 360 vs 430 design.

 

I own a 360 Modena Manual (at the time I bought it there was no 430 yet, I was skeptical about the F1, I wanted more involvement, I always dreamed of owning open gate Ferrari, plus it was cheaper to buy manual instead of F1 !!!!! LOL)

Today, the choices are a little different : 430 manual > 430 F1 > 360 manual > 360 F1 ( the symbol > means better in my opinion)

The 430 F1 is the ideal car for the track, as it combines power and F1 fast changes. Maintenace is not cheap. Initially cheaper than 360, because it is newer car, but as they get older the same thing will need replacing as the cars share most components. It is only a matter of time.

The 360 manual is the ideal street car, as it gives you Pure Ferrari Driving experience and satisfaction. The sound is awesome. Power is ok for street use. And maintenance is not that bad. It is become more rare and expensive, so hurry.

The 430 manual might be the best choice around but is super rare and expensive.

The 360 F1 is the most common choice for Ferrari as there were many made, but is the most expensive to maintain as the F1 is highly problematic. I know many people that get stranded with no gear and get frustrated. Also the cheapest of this group of car to buy.

Given the choice today, I would buy a 430 F1, as it is newer and more powerful car. However, since I already own 360 manual, I would never change it for a 430 F1. Only if I did not own a Ferrari at all, I would go for 430 F1

 

$14K?????? You sure you didn't type that all wrong? Belts are no where in that ballpark. dealer $4K or less and independents just under $2K.

While people are obsessing about belts v chains they aren't mentioning ediff problems or other 430 only issues. Truly, the different just isn't that much. Get the one you like and drive it.

 

When I had my 360, I had to deal with the chain tensioners. When I had a major service done, they were swapped out as part of the repairs and partially covered by Ferrari. This was over 10 years ago. I'm not sure if Ferrari will still pay for the parts when you pay for the labor of getting to them.

I didn't keep the car long enough to swap the belts a 2nd time, so I'm not sure what the costs are associated with that service.

The F430 was bullet proof. I drove the car nearly 6K miles (I know, not a lot) and only paid for fluid services. Nothing broke on the car, ever.

Belts aside, assuming you consider both cars equally fit for daily driving (I did), then it really comes down to a couple of things:

- Performance: The F430 is faster, but not by a huge amount.
- Looks: The 360 is better looking in my opinion
- Shifting: Gated vs F1 is totally a personal decision. I love the F1 tranny and the fact that race mode does more on an F1 car than just stiffen the suspension.

The best of both worlds would be to find a gated F430...

Good luck... these are good problems to have.

Frank

 

Nope, that is the price I was given by FoH. Waiting on an email from them to explain what all that includes

Now, I just got off the phone with Boardwalk who is 5 hours away vs 2 for FoH and they quoted me $2400 for the belts and an additional $1950 for annual service. If I would have known that, I might not have started doing the belts myself.....

 

I just went through that same decision process. An F430 manual was more then I wanted to spend but there was a 360 manual and F430 F1 at one of my two local Ferrari dealers. They where priced very close and both in contention. However, a 360 Spider showed up on one of their websites and they had a very similar F430 (same colors/both F1 Spiders/good maintenance records). They were almost clones except the two different models. So I drove them both back to back. Yes, the F430 is noticably faster and with a bit more modern interior but both drove fairly similar to the seat of my pants. And both had 13K miles on their odometers. So it came down to a essentially options and price. The 360 had a number of options that I liked such as the spare tire and Daytona seats but the biggest difference was in pricing. There was a $40K+ difference. So to all of the good maintenance points listed above I figured for the difference in price I could afford a bit of possible additional maintenance for the 360. While I still love the F430, for me, the 360 made dollars and sense. I am very happy with my decision.

 

Your question is repairs between F1 430 -vs- MT 360.

Both cars should be relatively reliable. Weakest link (repair/ breakdown wise) will be the 430 f1.

Hands down when making the comparison on repairs only (your question) the 360 MT wins. I’d take the known maintenance cost every 3 years of belts over potential for F1 problems.


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I owned both a MT 360 Spider and a MT 430 Spider. 430 was a great car. It is now in Ft Lauderdale on the floor at the Collection. I liked both but the biggest improvement of the 430 over the 360 is the chain vs the rubber serpentine belt in the engine. Do yourself a favor and find a nice 430 with a stick. It will hold its value and cost less to maintain.

 

I can smell another revival of the gated vs F1 topic here.

I'm not even going to elaborate why gated is more reliable in every avenue, just search and you'll find my gripes with the F1 system along with other F1 issue threads posted here.

 

This is easy to sort out, think of it in turms of male and female
360 = female
430 = male
There you go, easy![emoji109]


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Yes, my 360 is my girlfriend, not a bud.

 

There might be an issue with early 360 aluminum frames cracking near the engine mounts.
If the later editions were properly reinforced I'd take a MT 360 over a F1/430.

 

My 360F1 had a few CEL's that were hard ($$) to sort out and had a couple of F1 electronic issues that were hard ($$$) to sort too. Belt service was minimal in comparison.
4k to sort F1 issues was my biggest bill.
My 430 manual has cost me nothing in 3 years other than the known exhaust issues and servicing all done by me.
Different comparison than you are after I know. I wanted a 360 manual but couldn't find one here. If I had I would still own it
The 430 is a better faster car without a doubt.
It really is the manual v F1 debate again because that's the main difference in potential maintenance surprises.
I would choose the manual 360.

 

Why would you buy an F1 430 when you can get a higher mileage 458 for just a bit more?

360 with a stick or 430 with a stick.

 

I agree than if you are going for F1 you need to go with the newest possible car, especially one with Dual Clutch like the 458... My only concern is that pricewise, there will be a big gap between 430 F1 and 458... Given same mileage and condition... (why would you buy very low mileage 430 when you get get high mileage 458 ?? Best deal is medium-high mileage 430 F1 right now, or if you want to go cheap 360 F1 with medium-high mileage. Manual 360 / 430 are rare and expensive... You only buy if you plan to keep for ever)

 

I don't think that it's as big as people make it out to be. The cheapest 458 on cars.com is $139,997 with 27,882 mi. The cheapest 430 on the site is about $80k with 50k miles. Now I didn't think that prices had dropped this low. Before I looked. I thought they were still at the $100k mark.. but nonetheless. I don't know anything about it, but if the 430 needs a clutch, that will add what? $7k to the price. Perhaps odds and ends to make it $90k?
For an extra $40k you can get a 458 with more power and half the miles, and arguably a better car in every sense. Couple some e-diff solenoid repairs into it and a new water pump and you're a quarter the way there.
As depreciation, I was here in 2009. And 360's were at the $80k mark. Just like 430s. There's no reason the 430 won't be at $60-70k in a few years. So factor in that $10-20k price depreciation for a high miles car and well.. it's not as much a difference as we might want to believe IMHO.

 

That's easy for you to say, but not me.

I couldn't afford a 360 stick six years ago, and I had a 100K budget. They were all significantly above that then. So I got the 456M, which turned out to be a wonderful experience, even with the automatic.

This time I had a $125K budget, so now I'm set as far as mid V8's go. In another couple years, I hope to be able to afford a 612 stick, and then my garage will be complete (Except for motorcycles).

 

Surprise repair - three grand for AC compressor rebuild and three grand for master cylinder with vacuum booster rebuild.

Although not a surprise repair, per se, be prepared for similar costs to replace the lower ball joints.

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I have not had the misfortune of having to replace the hydraulic shifting system on an F1 transmission, but all in with new parts from the dealer is a repair $20,000 bill.

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Yes, the AC rebuild was a chunk of my resto too. Now that I have the drivetrain/engine bay restored, I'm planning to restore the suspension next.

Such fun!

 

612 stick! Sounds nice hardly ever see those!


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My 360 Spider has a dedicated bank account... it's the reality of owning such a finely crafted machine.