Hybrid V-12's are coming

It needs 70 litres for refreshing an hybrid V12 . It s too loud and too expensive for a model series. Look at the LF ; it s a real problem with mecanic maintenance.
V12 after 812 will be in a museum...

 

Want a bet?

 

For sure

 

Since Ferrari started producing the 125 S in 1947 more than 120 different Ferrari models (street and racing) have been motorized with 12 cylinder aspirated engines. That’s something that has endured in Ferrari more than any other marque and Tipo V12 on it’s current F140 form is one of the most iconic internal combustion engines of all time and has consolidated Ferrari’s reputation as the ultimate 12-cylinder proprietor. That the V12’s relies not on force induction also leads to a perfect linearity in power delivery creating the illusion that car and driver are one. Further to that Ferrari V12 engines generate a sound that is unique and very special.

That all future Ferraris will have more power than the present ones is a fact and part of evolution. From the F12 berlinetta with 740 cv to the 812 with 800cv it is more than expectable that the future substituting model of the 812 will have at least 900cv. There is no doubt that Ferrari is technically capable of producing a natural aspirated V12 with 900 cv for it's future needs but that would mean an engine with at least 6,9 liters . Because of the greater technical complexity and the bigger dimensions and weight of such an engine it would be more difficult to accommodate and due to these circumstances, Ferrari decision to go hybrid is perfectly logic and acceptable and possibly the only way of perpetuating the V12 legacy.


Just for curiosity the car shown in the pictures below is the (1971) 712 Can Am and houses Ferrari’s biggest ever made natural aspirated V12 engine ( 6,860 cc, 689 cv )


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There's a nice interview with that man (Vittorio Dini) about N/A engines, hybrids (even V6s), 10-years vision about batteries and whatnot, published on the #114 issue of Top Gear Italy (May 2017, if I'm not mistaken). Maybe I should start working on a full translation and then post it here.

 

Here It is:

[…] The engine has always been and always will be Ferrari’s heart. Let’s talk with the man who, today, manage its heartbeat: Vittorio Dini. From 2010 until 2013, he’s been in charge of the development of the F1 power units and since 2014, he’s been the engine department chief in Maranello. “The other day” – he says – “I drove a F12 around northern Italy. It’s an extraordinary car, one you never get tired of pushing, of feeling it accelerate. The naturally aspirated engine, the V12, will remain as long as they will let us build it”. A sentence which smells of unshakable faith, a memory which speaks clearly about Maranello’s engine philosophy.

So, the naturally aspirated engine will still be part of Ferrari's portfolio, despite the need to reduce fuel consumption and emissions? “Today we are planning everything and we know we will keep producing the N/A V12 engines. I think the future where everything needs to resemble a tablet is still quite far away”.
At Ferrari, they perfectly know their clients: they know some of them will never give up on this kind of tradition, but they also realize that progress never stops and new trends catch on, especially in the collective imagination of new generations and they’re working on this front. "Today, new technologies don’t guarantee a “prolonged kind of fun” behind the wheel, something that cars – let’s say – more conventional can do very well”. Nobody at Maranello ignores the new horizons, as the use of turbocharges on the latest V8 engines or the hybrid seen on the LaFerrari confirms.

Q: “You’re the world’s “emotion” leaders. How can they [emotions] live with the development of the new engineering concepts?"

A: "The answer lies in the engine. Some kind of electrification will surely arrive. In this moment we’re studying the right balance between endothermic and electric engines to keep the emotional level very high, taking cues from the new advancing technologies and from the potential performances of electric vehicles. Batteries, right now, are quickly evolving and improving every day and It’s hard to imagine where they will be in the following years with absolute precision”.

Q: “So you’re working on those new scenarios?”

A: “Yes, we do, obviously, even if It’s difficult to say how far we will go. In my opinion, there’s a great amount of research on batteries going on nowadays and that definitely leaves room for lots of changes. In this moment, we have a “vision” up to 10 years in the future."

Q: “You’re avant-gardist when it comes down to providing “ad hoc” emotional setups. In the last months, many started talking about a return to analogic inputs, some manufacturers are offering a manual gearbox on their supercars. Have you ever thought about following this ‘old school’ front?"

A: “If we consider the technical evolution in the past years, then it’s impossible to think about going back. Let’s talk about manual gearboxes: many, especially british people, long for its return. They say that, thanks to it, they’re the ones who drive, who “govern” the cars. But if we’re talking about performance, there’s no doubt that a twin clutch will always be faster than a manual. The shifting speed, enhanced by hydraulics and electronics, points towards the direction where we want to go. The way you drive, one of our cars, for examples, shows how fully you can use and push the vehicle itself. From this point of view, we certainly cannot please those who wants the purest analogicity, It’d be like getting rid of ABS or traction control. We aim at optimizing the car in order to let the drivers take advantage of its potential at 100%. The purest performance is our main goal: the various electronic systems are implemented and used to maximize it. This is our point of view."

Q: "Let’s talk about hybrid.."

A: "Our hybrid will be performance-driven: the mechanical installation of the hybrid systems will be extremely important in order to optimize the weight distribution. The basic problem is that you’re going to add kilos and kilos of batteries, on top of electric and endothermic engines. Obviously, if you can count on additional electric units, you don’t need to push the traditional engine to the very extreme, saving something in terms of weight (even if the power density of an endothermic engine today is superior to the electric power unit). Anyway, the optimization of this system can minimize this kind of impact. Again, we’re working on usage strategies: from battery-engine interaction to energy recovery and everything else. We don’t look at those systems as a way to reduce fuel consumption but as a way to reach for absolute performances. Optimizing performances is something we’ve always done and will always do.

Q: "In Ferrari’s history, there have been different kinds of engines: do you plan to take advantage of your heritage in order to make the hybrid systems lighter?"

A: "We’ve been thinking about new engines, different to those we’re used to. We won’t move towards to two-cylinders (laughs) or a four-cylinders engines. Today we’re evaluating a six-cylinders configuration."

Q: "Are there local companies that can contribute to your growth and development?"

A: Yes, we collaborate with many businesses you can find around here. The evolution of the always-growing italian Motor Valley also leads to university specialized degrees and courses: Bologna’s, for example, focus on controls, Modena’s on structural parts of the chassis and fluid dynamics. Some great companies were born here and still keep growing. The HPE Coxa in Modena, for example. In this historic period, however, we work a lot on batteries and electric motors and we’re forced to look for partners in the USA, Japan or Korea. I truly hope that those sectors will also grow and evolve in our Motor Valley so this kind of technologies can be produced and developed here."

Published on Top Gear Italy Magazine (Issue #114, May 2017, original text by Marco Pascali)

 

Marchionne said so many times, it was impossible for Ferrari to build an SUV...and around 2021 such a truck will arrive....
Electric batteries + refresh cooling + V12 + new platform will be a resullt of more than 2000 kg s car !!!

 

Any proof of that?

I too bet on the hybidised N/A V12!

 

I don't understand why it's even a discussion. Ferrari IS V12, SM realises this and they will be the last manufacturer to give that up. Logic, interviews, history, performance, everything point to a hybrid V12 and they have already put their foot in that particular pond with the LF.

They are not idiots and know how important 12 cylinders and everything it brings to the brand is. The only question is what innovative approach they adopt and consequently the type of hybrid. I do, however, think the V8 is at more risk.

 

They will have to come up with a less maintenance intensive system than on the LaF, which breaks if it's left sitting and not plugged in.

I see the advantages in performance with a V12 hybrid powertrain, but it needs to be reliable and relatively easy to live with.

The day Ferrari gives up on the V12 will be the day Ferrari is no longer Ferrari.

 

Indeed, I think they may replace the 8-cylinder units by 6-cylinder units -but they must keep the V12 and I believe they will as long as it's possible.
When Ferrari initially extended its range with "lower" models, they were called Dino and used 6-cylinder engines.
The V12 is part of the original Ferrari DNA, the V8 is not.

 

Given that was 5+ years ago when designed, I don't think it will be any sort of issue.

 

Indeed, but I am sure that they know that a V6 Ferrari won't cut it!

 

Only if they call it a Dino.

 

It's a new world guys and an outrageous hybrid V6 might be part of it. The Merc F1 engine is hardly a disaster....

 

@ Realzeus : look at the new product plan in a few month and we ll speak about

 

Ok, if Marchionne said that, it certainly will be the truth !!!
812 is sold out just for the NA V12, not for the design, not for the innovation, and not for the car...

 

Whaaat?... The 812 is amazing in every department!

 

That’s a silly statement. Of course it is due to the NA V12 - just like the 599, F12 and TDF. But to say it has no other appeal is ridiculous. If i only wanted a V12, i could get a Mercedes or Aston Martin. I ordered the 812 because it is an amazing car and I love the design AND it is a V12.


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This is an enjoyable thread. Love that 6.9L V12 MDEL posted and the fact that the Ferrari chief F1 engine designer is smitten with the F12 and its hard accelerating NA V12. There is no replacing the NA V12 IMO and I would not be a Ferrari owner otherwise. Hybridization after 2021 with an NA V12 is an option but that's not too far away and battery technology is still going to be crap by then. If you don't use a battery it will die and we all know it. Weakest part of a car. Too many threads here complaining about them.

Ferrari can do something special with F1 related technology perhaps. Maybe endothermic-chemical where hydrogen is produced and fed back down the intake of the NA V12. If that doesn't cut it then maybe a tiny electric shaver sized motor with similar sized battery paired to the next more powerful F140 NA V12 just to say its a hybrid. Make the battery plug-in replaceable like an impact wrench.

 

This is beyond silly now...