So My Noise Issue Has Been Found, I Need Help With Next Step

So as you may remember I posted about the noise my transmission was making, I called Tim Stanford and he recommended to another place because he does not work on newer cars like mine. So the issue with my car, and I just picked it up today after a week, the issue is that basically

the vehicle was driven for too long with the gearbox oil not set to the correct level which has damaged internal components. They checked the gearbox and it was too low to indicate on the dipstick. The filled it with 2.5 quarts of Shell 75w-90 full synthetic to get it to the proper level, tested it and it was still whining. They also filled the gearbox with 4.75 quarts of Redline 75w90.

So now the issue is I bought the car, major service included, which I found out now from this other shop wasn't really a major service but a cambelt service and an oil change and the car now needs things like spark plugs as well. Anyways that didn't bother me as much bc I felt I got a good price on the car but anyways, I dont know every thing included in a major but I was told the car would get a major before I got it. I got a receipt for $2500 of work for belts and fluids changed. Anyways this gearbox oil was too low and the tech who saw it now think I may have potentially damaged it on the 125 mile trip home bc it was low on fluid or it could have been damaged before I got it 400 miles ago. Either way the car was given to me with too low fluid which was the major problem.

So now the car drives fine, the issue is isolated to 6th gear and Im going to avoid it till the issue is figured it out with the dealer I bought the car from. So now, who is to blame for all this? The tech here says its not my fault they released a car low on gearbox fluid especially if they did a major service before selling it to me. I don't want to name names on the internet bc I genuinely believe it was an honest mistake that just turned out to be super pricey..The dealer I bought the car from is very reputable and the shop he had the service done at, they're very reputable too. Perhaps it was just an error on the techs part bc I spoke with a super knowledgable tech out here and he explained how complicated and time consuming servicing the 575 gear box is. Either way the receipt for the major is in the dealers name, not mine so im not even really a customer of the shop who did the work. The receipt for the major includes a part that says "top up all fluids".....well the gearbox fluid wasn't topped up and I have pics of the dark brown fluid that came out and the shop kept to show me vs the light yellow/brown fluid they just put in.

So if this was your car and you've put just 400 miles since you bought it, whats the next step, the shop out here says the car was given to you in this condition and the major service that was done should have noticed the low fluid for starters. Whether the damage was done before or after, the low fluid was an issue from the service and 6th gear more than likely was not damaged in the 400 miles ive driven it unless it was damaged on that highway drive home short on fluid.

 

also the only reason i ask is rebuilding the transmission i was told is very very expensive like 15-20k. The receipts for the car go back 10 years, it looks like the last time the gearbox was serviced was 2013, the tech out here though said if they did a major service that should have been in there. It says on the receipt they topped off all fluids, this was really empty so he said they gave me a car low on fluid and me immediately driving it home 125 miles could have been what caused it bc its only 6th gear which is what I used on the trip home. For now 1st-5th work fine and finally got to enjoy driving it today.

 

I just copied from his email, perhaps he added 2.5 qts then flushed it and added 4.75 of a different type? They have different names I see

 

Looking over the last 5 years of receipts on the car my new tech, who btw is the most knowledgable guy I've ever met, I need to thank Tim Stanford for referring me to him. He looked over all the receipts and the dealer I bought the car from keeps noting the the donax added when the clutch was replaced 3000 miles ago as the gear oil but this tech is noting The 1 container of donax that is noted on the clutch change, 1) it is not enough and 2) is not the correct fluid according to him, it is not gearbox oil, its automatic transmission fluid or power steering fluid to top off the F1 tank more likely but nowhere on there does it say that the gear oil was changed. Its nowhere on the receipts. Shell 75w90 full synthetic is the gear oil that Ferrari recommends and thats what he topped it off with and he says there is no 75w90 on any of the receipts from the shop servicing it the last few years, he was looking through them all and could not find it. This tech then flushed it and added redline full synthetic specially for a transmission that is with a transaxle like the 575.

So basically the dealer I bought it from is saying the donax was the gear oil and it was changed in 2014 and the tech here is saying donax is not gear oil and the gear oil hasn't been changed since the Ferrari dealer serviced it in 2013.

 

My problem and whats irking me badly is this. The tech I used in miami is literally one of the best in the world, he doesn't advertise himself and was working on some of the best Ferraris in the world at his shop. Tim referred me to him, he was about to begin work on an F50, people dont send F50s to guys unless they're the best. Small shop and he does all the work. The guy went over all my cars service records with me and basically explained to me in each one how the shop doing the work the last 5 years basically isn't doing this properly bc they say we did something but dont write out exactly what was done the way he does. He got frustrated trying to repeatedly get through to them that donax wasn't the gear oil he was mentioning could have been the issue and he was just flabbergasted at how this shop is so well known. He said the 575 gearbox is a tricky one to fill and different from others and he showed me exactly how its done and its time consuming. The dealer I bought car from wants me to take car to him this week, another 100+ miles away, and drive it with the mechanic he's been using to service his cars forever. He was willing to acknowledge that if there is an issue he would fix with the mechanic he knows and trusts.

Here is what I dont like about that

The mechanic and his shop that worked on it have made basically "wholesale" work on the car for the last 5 years according to this tech just by looking at receipts on the car and how things like the clutch disc were changed with customer supplied parts(possibly the dealer) a few years ago and how they considered that a clutch change and how they thought donax was gear oil, and just overall how they bill so few hours to do such major things they have claimed to the car over the past 5 years ie 1.5 hours of labor for an annual service on the car every year. If they do admit there is an issue and they missed it the dealer wants to fix it with these guys bc he's so used to their cheap prices and apparently sometimes mediocre work. I thought I was getting a "major service" when I bought it 6 weeks back bc the paper work says major included, but I got a $2500 belt service and the tech here is telling me it needs spark plugs and more which I will do soon once this is resolved. I've learned a ton this week and really more than anything wish the dealer explained this all more, but its ok you live, you learn, and im learning an expensive lesson thus far. The dealer is saying the guy I use charges too much out here and the quote im getting of $15-20 thousand isn't going to fly with him bc if there's an issue they can put in a used gearbox for $5-6k and solve the issue. The tech out here said thats an awful idea bc they numbers wont match and will hurt the car in the long run. The dealer rebutted with this

"With regard the numbers matching, there are many cars that have had major components changed by Ferrari under warranty and no one seems to care. Classiche certification is just another money maker for Ferrari. Chris Evans, a British collector paid $37m for an original California Spider, classiche certified then found out Ferrari had installed a new period engine and restamped the block."

So now if there is indeed an issue next week when they look it, they want to put in a different transmission vs rebuilding bc its obviously cheaper for them but in reality i just want the guy in miami to work on it bc he's really the nicest,most genuine, and knowledgable tech I've ever worked with on any car ever. I will never go to anyone else but him moving forward and if you want his info pm me and ill give it you.

So knowing all this, how would you approach going forward. I just want the car fixed if it is their fault, but I also want it fixed properly not some half ass manner but they feel the indy shop im using is just too much money. Just yesterday a 2004 575 red with black/red interior sold at mecum kissimee for $135K + whatever fees they charge. Its a beauty and I want done perfectly.

 

He just gave the dealer im trying to work with probably the greatest response I've ever seen via email. This is what the dealer said

"This is what I am questioning, that and the fact that both my tech and a Certified Master Ferrari technician both say that if there was a shortage of fluid in the gearbox, 6th gear would be the last to go, first would be synchro’s in 2nd, then third and so on."

This is what my guy here said back...(he attached diagrams too to forward the dealer for him and his techs)

These statements are just technically incorrect. Attached are diagrams of the 575 transmission and as can be seen diagram (main shaft gear and oil pump), 6th gear is the one that is closest to the front of the transmission. The 575 transmission is broken up into case sections as can be seen in the diagram (gearbox case). 4th, 5th, and 6th are all in the forward most case. At the bottom of each case section is a hole that reduces the ability of the oil to flow backwards into the other case sections which will occur during acceleration. Therefore when this transmission is run low on oil, it is actually 1st, 2nd, and 3rd that will receive the majority of the available lubrication because they are in the rear section of the gearbox. The main and input shaft also ride higher in the transmission than there mating gears on the lay shaft. So the reason why 6th is making noise is because its the biggest gear on the main shaft at the top and its in the most forward position of any of the gears. Most likely the damage occurred while 6th gear was under load (car being driven in 6th gear) at highway speeds for a period of time without the proper amount of oil in the gearbox.

My mind was blown at the level of detail he included, what a brilliant tech and such a great guy to take time to explain it out bc the dealer was trying to say that if the gearbox was low on oil it wouldn't be 6th gear but rather other gears that would have been damaged. Like I said I learned ALOT this week from this incredible tech, really the best I've ever been around with any car of mine.

Im taking the car up to the original dealer and service shop to see it tuesday, I will let you know how it goes, and yes original numbers matching is important to me bc this car is over $100k its an investment either way, its not going to $37m but its still a decent chunk of money for most people and it needs to be fixed properly. Obviously dealer wants the cheapest way out, but there seems to be pretty substantial proof that the shop that has serviced the car for the last 5 years hasn't added gear oil in any of the receipts and I was told its needed every 2 years and is definitely included in a "major" but either way nothing is noted on the last 4-5 years of receipts from the same shop of the addition of any.