Yikes - that is a pretty high tariff, but appreciate your honesty. I suppose you might be able to justify for a 599, but not a 612. I was hoping such an operation could be kept under $50K USD. Hopefully, someone can make this process more efficient & cheaper for future efforts.
The majority of the cost is in the usage of new OEM parts. If one were to use used parts, source them themselves, or even have parts built by an aftermarket supplier, 0ne might be able to do the job for less. The labor is minimal in comparison to parts costs. And what price does one put on the R&D on the non-obtainium bits ( clutch pedal ) and electronics ? You are right , I think the 599 is the market for those that want to do it, the value of the 6 speed 599 supports the investment as well. Maybe the 612 , but for the overall value of the project... 599 all the way! S p.s. Finding a 599 in the low $100's would also make it worth while IMO
It would be nice to get a ballpark figure for a 612 conversion, because then I could evaluate whether the market price for a manual 612 would make the conversion cost effective.
So, there’s the rub: Is the value of a conversion MT 599 > or = the cost of a 599 plus the 90K for the MT changeover? Thoughts?
Everything has a buyer. My take on it would be that with the conversion MT you’re looking at a buyer who wants to enjoy the MT driving experience and likely less mileage sensitive. I’m not sure where the 599 market is at the moment but I think it’s likely that many conversion MT buyers might pay the premium to not have to go through the procedure themselves.... with the associated downtime and risks. Obviously this is assuming the conversion is properly done, etc. - the question would be how to verify the quality of the conversion if you’re buying from a third party Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Pre Owned 599 $120k-$140k ( We are looking at a driver not a show car ) Conversion $90k So you are in it for $230k ... almost half what the factory original is going for.. add expected return on investment ( $ 50k ? ) $280k for a turn key MT 599 ... seems fair to me. What IF , the conversion was blessed by the factory? ( THIS is a reach but what if ? ) S
I agree as well, if there is a buyer for the converted car, they will ultimately set the market. Now, If I can just get the current owner to put his car up for sale ( too soon? ) and see what his ask is vs offers.. As for how to verify the conversion itself: 1. OEM parts or makeshift? I'd think proof of this would be the starting point. 2. Documentation of who performed the conversion itself. 3. Drive the car The work itself , while slightly labor intensive, is not where the expense is IMO , the expense is using the " correct " parts ( OEM to me ) ... The R&D was difficult, but looking back, knowing what we know now , the next one will go smoother simply because we have the roadmap. MY thoughts for what they are worth. S
Thanks for sharing all of the info on the cost associated with converting the 599. Just curious, what would stop someone from trying to pass a converted 599 off as an original factory MT car? I know that the paperwork that came with the car such as the original sticker and warranty card would state "F1", but are there any things to look for on the car itself to tell that a car was converted? Could a call into a Ferrari dealer with the VIN# allow them to verify if a car was Manual or F1 originally? Hopefully most sellers would be honest and not try to pass a converted car off as a factory original manual transmission car, but you never know!
Already been tried with a 575M, but the V12 mafia spotted it. With the VIN, any dealer can print a build sheet from MODIS. That spells out all the options fitted to the 599 (or any late Ferrari), including whether she was originally F1 or 3 pedal.
I don't think anyone is that gullible are they. My 599 HGTE paperwork is so obviously for an auto, no-one who did even the basics of a check into it's history would miss how it started out in life.
It's amazing to me how many times you look at the classified ads and the dealers will list an F1 as a "manual" transmission.
Any buyer could request the MODIS printout showing how it left the factory. Easy to check / confirm IMO S
F1 Manual transmission? or 6 speed manual transmission? Because... the gearbox IS a manual gearbox.. with an F1 mechanical component added to it to shift gears for you right? Automated manual gearbox maybe? All the above is written in fun... not meant to be argumentative S
I read through this thread and found it really interesting. Steve - When you said that "what if it was blessed from the factory" got me thinking. Wasn't the HGTE package for the 599 installed by dealers (I know that the HGTE package is not as intense as a manual conversion)? If so, this could be similar and with factory blessing, could alleviate customer concerns on a conversion. Just a thought....
599 F1 and 3 pedal transmissions are identical except for a couple of plugs for sensors, etc not needed with 3 pedals. Throw-out bearings are identical except for seals optimized for brake fluid or F1 fluid.
No, many came out of the factory as HGTE's, but they also sold the kit to dealers to fit. There are ways of telling the difference.
Thanks Phil. My local dealer has a 599 that was a dealer converted HGTE package which is why I brought this up. Not being a 599 owner, I wasn't sure if this was a dealer only add on, factory or both.
I think the original wording was "robotized mechanical" gearbox, as opposed to an automatic gearbox; automatic gearboxes have gone a long way from what they were though - the initial advantages of robotized vs automatic are not so clear now (an old automatic gearbox was literally slipping from one gear to another, and this was painfully noticeable - now the gear changes are controlled by an ECU and are closer to mechanical gear changes).
No HGTE on the 612. HGTS, HGTC, HGT1 (Sessanta only), and HGT2 were available at various times explained here elsewhere.
Owner has put the car up for sale: http://www.boardwalkferrari.com/used/Ferrari/2007-Ferrari-599+GTB+Fiorano-Dallas-cda6fc1d0a0e08f74e08f0b6cc324c9f.htm Taking in to account what they are going for, having this one that you can actually drive, for a % of the cost seems like a steal... not to mention you don't have to worry about the down time of doing a conversion yourself. Steve
Isn't that price what they sell for when factory stick shift cars? It's been awhile since I've seen one for sale so I might be behind the pricing.
I think we should wait until after Scottsdale to see... prices seem to fluctuate around auction time. FWIW we had a true 6 speed sell in 2017 for considerably more than this asking price. I'm interested to see where the market is ... S