Sigh.....Gearbox light on, lost reverse and even # gears

Man I feel your pain. While I do not own a Cali I have read many post here that say that this is a sensor issue which is a sub $5k repair. Best of luck.

 

Yea this appears to be the dreaded DCT failure. Eric is correct it appears that the price you are being quoted is quite elevated. Highest I have seen for the repair with nothing else wrong was just under 8k. 6k seems to be kinda the average. I'd sure find a different shop to repair your car. Also while I highly doubt this is the case I'd check the battery too. I've heard of some weird stuff related to bad battery.

 

Any recourse with the dealer? That sounds like some BS to me, likely the dealer knew before selling the car. How many miles did you drive before it went wonky?

 

Looks suspicious to me.

If the dealer knew about the problem and perhaps reset the ECUs and cleared the flags before selling the car, it would explain why you hit the problem (again) as soon as the temperature sensor got triggered. The DCT may have a "real issue" or maybe the sensor simply malfunctioned. Many of the "DCT failures" were simply caused by a bad sensor or damaged wiring.

I don't know how many times I have told people - NEVER buy a used Ferrari, especially a modern one, without some sort of warranty. You should make it one of the conditions of sale to have at least, a 1-year (POWER) warranty covered by the factory that covers issues like the DCT.

I suggest you pull all the service records of the car, if you haven't already done so. Never buy an expensive used car without first checking all the service records. Depending on where you live, there may also be legal recourse for situations where a used car fails immediately after purchase. I would contact the government agency(ies) that oversee the business license of the dealer. You should contact them and report this immediately. You might also inquire with law firms who deal with consumer complaints to see if they can help - but speak to the assistant first and make sure you are not incurring any billable time when you inquire about legal service.

READ the threads on FChat on these issues before arriving at a conclusion... or buying a car. Do your homework before buying any car, especially an expensive used one.

 

I wandered if it might have been a case of a dealer covering up the DCT issues, but the thing that got me was the 17k repair estimate. As far as the dealer claiming to not know about the DCT issue doesn't know much about californias. When I decided a California was something I wanted the DCT issue was the first thing I found out about. Subsequent research eased my mind about them especially reguarding the cost.

Where was the estimate of 17k from? Was it a Ferrari dealer? I'm assuming the dealer is an independent dealer. The dealer is probably right about a sensor or electronic issue, except you have to open the DCT housing to get to it which ain't cheap. If the estimate for repairs isn't from Ferrari perhaps call a Ferrari dealer and ask.

Like 4th gear said, you might have recourse against the dealer, especially if they didn't disclose the repair was needed and cleared the corresponding codes. Also he is a deep well of knowledge on the California. I myself personally figured if I didn't buy a 2012 and up model I'd keep 8k in reserve or buy from Ferrari used to get the 12 month power warranty.

I sucks to hear of this happening to someone. I always go into a purchase at a dealer, especially independent used car dealers, assuming they hid something that will need repair. Also never trade vehicles in anymore from shady dealer practices either. I hope you get a little bit better news concerning repairs.

 

If the service record shows the car had a prior DCT issue which was not corrected then you may have a case whereby the dealer did not mention that major issue to you when you bought the car.

IMO, there is no way around getting the problem fixed, unless you sell the car and let someone else fix it. As for quotes... AGAIN, the prices people got for actual DCT repairs are stated on FChat if you had searched. Based on that information the costs of having the DCT serviced locally (instead of swapping for a rebuilt unit) then the Ferrari dealer gave you an honest price - $7,000. It does not cost $17,000 to fix.

IMO, whenever you buy an expensive used car, you should put aside enough money to cover the WORST CASE scenario... especially if you have no warranty.

 

I in no way was throwing your dealer under the bus as far as hiding a potential problem was just something that i thought of but the transmission issues on 09 to mid 2012 California and 458 is a known issue. Like i said was the first thing i found on the California when researching the car. The other issues include sensors in the top going out and motor mounts and transmission mount failures. I have heard of some wiring gremlins in the dash and ac units as well but not as much as the other 3 issues. Also I am pretty critical of car salesmen as a whole, and justifiably so. Of the used cars I have purchased well more then half of the cars had issues that were undisclosed. Some I discovered before purchasing and purchased anyways knowing what I was getting and a few others not so much. Generally I have better luck purchasing used from name brand dealers. Not had a whole lot of issues purchasing new vehicles unless they are deeply discounted. Then i find its usually better off to pay a little more then get that sweet deal. Over all I hate the car buying "experience" from some pretty dastardly individuals actions.

Again as 4thgear said if there is evidence of DCT failure in the service records someone didnt disclose this information and you have some recourse there. Barring this the only other recourse is to pay the 7k to repair the DCT or sell the car at a loss for someone else to repair. And really 7 k while a chunk to pay right at the beginning of ownership isnt as bad as it could be really. As i said I hope everything works out for you and a year from now this is all just a slight memory.

 

thats why i mentioned the battery, though its a huge long shot because what you mentioned sounds very much like the internals sensor failure. And to be fair I would probably change the battery anyways since these cars dont like not being tendered constantly and if the way the local Porche dealer handles the Ferraris on their lot, probably will need a battery.

And assuming you get the repair done it highly likely you wont have anything else major go wrong, with the exception of needing to replace the CCB rotors if you track the car. These cars are really easy on the maintenance compared to say a 355. But of course being as its a Ferrari they usualy cost a few bucks if they do break.

 

Completely agree, I think it's BS. Was reading posts about cars delivered new needing paint correction earlier. Baffles me really. My black Infiniti SUV when delivered had deep rich paint, not a flaw or swirl to be had. Heck I bought a Camry years ago and the same thing. I'm digging in trying to make sure whatever I end up doing is the right buy vs. what I did before years back with another car in an impulse buy. Guess I learned some lessons years ago on my Vette and don't want to repeat as the price for repairs is significantly higher with a Ferrari. I'm also going to budget about 20-30% extra saved up in case of any issues and to get things where I want them if needed. I figure around $200k will get me where I want to be and reserves for issues. Also would think about getting a car with a warranty when buying used.

I guess I don't understand how someone can drop 250k+ on a Cali or 300k+ on a 488 and just "deal with the issues" or drop another 7-10k on paint correction with a new car just being delivered from the dealership. A car in today's day and age should be able to reliably drive 8 years or 100k miles with little in the issues department other than brakes/tires/fluids every so often (unless the car is tracked/driven hard). It should be more reliable I'd think for the price, though some might argue that Toyota, Nissan, etc.. have the scale to build in more reliability with their R&D, etc.. Sounds like it's just deal with it or someone else will take your spot which is not how I'd want to run my business, though seems like from many posts that they just can get away with it because we love them.

 

Cars delivered new from Ferrari come with a 3 year warranty and paint correction would be covered under that as well as all other issues that would arise not customer abuse or wear and tear related. I believe this is the point 4th gear was making that when you buy a new Ferrari and dont drive it to shake down the little mistakes and have them covered under warranty then you do yourself and anyone that purchases the car afterwards a disservice.

And if you buy a new Ferrari now it will also come with 7 years free scheduled maintenance, and all cars 2013 up have that so if you buy a used 2015 Cali T you still have 4 years free scheduled maintenance, and from information I saw any Ferrari 2008 and up is eligible for CPO status meaning 1 year power warranty and 1 year scheduled maintenance at a minimum with the option of adding another 2 years warranty at the time of purchase. So this means any mechanical issue would be covered under the warranty and would be caught under the free scheduled maintenance.

Now this final part is my opinion and to be taken as such but it is my opinion that if you are a new exotic purchaser regardless of brand and even if it is used spend the extra money and purchase the vehicle from the corresponding dealer. In Ferrari's case more then likely you will be getting 1 year scheduled maintenance and 1 year warranty and you will be building a relationship with the dealer and service department. An important thing in limited run hand built cars. And if you did not do so to begin with learn all the quirks of the specific model you purchased and join the appropriate forums.

While there are stories out there of bad things happening, there are more stories of the great cars and experiences people have had with them. And remember in the case of a 2010 California that car is now pushing 8 years old and more maintenance issues are going to be popping up. And of the 2 major issues the California's have Ferrari gets a pass because 1 getrag makes the DCT and its put in more then just the California, 458 and LaFerrari (though i have no idea if there are issues in other cars that use getrag DCT) 2) the sensor failures in the convertible top occur on lots of models, not just Ferrari's and can cost just as much on "normal" cars to repair a failed sensor the way the sensor suites are integrated into wiring harnesses. I feel like it is unfair to paint Ferrari with a wide brush, yes some cars have issues from the factory. most arent caught due to owners not using the product.

While it is always a good idea to have 10 to 15k in reserve when owning a Ferrari the more modern ones are way easier on the pocket book then many of the previous variants.

 

I don't know who your dealership is, but if they have not seen multiple cars with DCT issues, then they must not sell/service very many cars. On the average we will have multiple cars a month that have DCT issues. When a car is under warranty, Ferrari pays next to nothing (flat rate) to remove, repair and reinstall a DCT transmission. It takes between 30-50 hours to R&R a DCT transmission and repair it, but Ferrari only pays 20-30 hours to perform the job. The last DCT that I did under warranty, I worked for 30 hours for free. So fixing DCT's under warranty is not something that the dealership or its techs look forward to.
On the other hand when the customer is paying to have a DCT fixed, the labor times are going to reflect the actual time that it takes to perform the repair.

The parts to fix a DCT are not available from either Ferrari or Getrag as individual parts, There are four kits (level 1, 2, 3, 4). Depending on what is wrong with your transmission you have to buy whatever kit is needed that has the defective part that malfunctioning in your transmission. You also pay for all of the other parts in the kit even though they may be fine in your transmission. These kits are not cheap. Between the actual true labor cost and the cost of the repair kit that is needed for your DCT, I would say that the repair cost is going to be closer to the quote that your independent shop gave you , $17k.

There are all of these stories of $7000 DCT repairs, but I have yet to see actual proof that someone had a car that was out of warranty that paid so little for a DCT repair. It sounds like you might have either a temperature sensor issue, or a speed sensor issue. There should be a fault code stored in the transmission ECU pointing to the cause of the failure. The temp sensor issue is less expensive, the speed sensor issue is one of the more involved/expensive DCT repairs. I would be very interested see an estimate for the exact cost of either of these repairs

 

You know, it

Well, here you go then.

Here's a 2016 repair for loss of even gears in a California owned by another FChat member. As far as I can tell $4425 for labour and $2441.36 in parts come up to $6866.36 + tax(es). It's not a "story". The owner of the Cali who posted his story on FChat wasn't at all pleased about having to pay for the repairs. He wasn't bragging about the price.

As with any transmission repair, the costs depend on what you are actually doing with with the transmission.

If you are doing a full rebuild on the DCT, then the final bill is likely to look closer to the $25,000 price tag (profit margin included from both Ferrari AND Getrag) they used to put on swapping defective DCTs for new or rebuilt units... because the replacements would have involved 2-way shipping costs of a delicate and heavy transmission from and back to Germany, plus repair costs based on what was likely a FULL rebuild on the defective DCT done by Getrag. They probably have to do a full rebuild because they eventually put these repaired units back into other customers' cars, with a warranty of the rebuilt DCT. Getrag would naturally cover their b**ts by charging for the worst case repair on the DCT of unknown condition being returned from the customer's car.

OTOH, if the DCT is being repaired locally, you only pay the dealer, not Getrag (aside from parts) and not the shipping companies, you also only need to repair what is defective, which is usually to replace a sensor or damaged wiring harness and then re-assemble with fresh lubricants and seals. You wouldn't have to spend extra time and parts to do a full rebuild.

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I guess that it is possible to have a DTC speed sensor replaced for $7000. But it doesn't list where this repair was performed, how long the shop took to do the work or what they charge per hour. The parts cost is also very low. Perhaps the shop was giving the customer some kind of good-will break, or they are in a part of the country where they have low hourly rates and parts costs.
The same repair at our shop in California would be double the cost or more.

 

LOL, I have a 2017 Infiniti SUV too and I have to say that I noticed yesterday the faux Infiniti colored stitching looked almost as good as the Poltrona Frau in my Cali. It’s no Ferrari though.

When I was paying for the PPI for another California (that I ended up not buying), the authorized dealer’s service advisor told me that these cars wear at 2.5X the rate of a Porsche. So a Ferrari with 20,000 files was basically like buying a used Porsche with 50,000 or a Honda with 100,000. And unless you buy a Ferrari CPO, I think they all need $10,000 in repairs (including cosmetic repairs) and preventive maintenance or new battery & tires anyway. If they don’t, you got very lucky.

My new-to-me Ferrari California has 8,800 miles or 22,000 Porsche miles and I’ve already spent $2,000 on “cosmetic” items (~broken rear diffuser fins and bits). One of the mini headlight turn signal LED lens covers popped out and is just sitting inside the headlight assembly, but I’m not bothering to spend another $5,000 for a new headlight. Haven’t scheduled the first service appointment yet, but I anticipate dropping $4 to $5,000 at the dealer easy and this for a car that looks brand new both inside & out and spent its entire life in a climate controlled garage and has (according to the previous owner) never experienced rain. I am the second owner.

 

That receipt has the Ferrari dealer watermark. I would say it looks to be repaired at the dealer.

 

Wow the information you are quoting is contrary to the information several others have stated over the last 2-3 years regarding DCT repairs. 6-8k seemed to be the new magic number now that several techs were trained to perform repairs. And if its like you say several cars a month then its a far worse problem then anyone let on. Seems to me like perhaps the early California's should be avoided at all cost according to your information. Even with a power warranty by your own words your car will be in the shop at a minimum a week with a transmission failure.

 

Thanks... good information to know for sure.

 

Ok so im dealing with this right now. An older car, a 2002 maranello. I took it to the Ferrari dealer they found the issue and said there was no way I caused it in my 3 weeks of ownership so they took pictures of everything. We looked over the cars service records and it hadn't had a gearbox oil change in 5 years, so there was proof in the paperwork.I discussed the matter with the dealer I bought the car from and he is fixing the car for me free of charge which is awesome bc it was gonna be a 4-5 week or longer job + cost a TON of money. My issue had to do with car being short on gear oil AFTER it just had a major service done and I burned up a gear and it was making a noise, but sounds like the dealer should be help you out

btw I see the 713 in your name are you in houston by any chance?