F40 LM Restoration

Very fair observations and question. I certainly have nothing against the present owner who, as I said in my opening post above, has completed an amazing restoration. I doubt many people would have the commitment or know how to pull it off. I have nothing but praise for the owner in this regard.

You are correct in saying I am trying to draw attention to the early history of the car. The reason is simple. There has been a claim that this is is one of 27 F40 privateer conversions back in the day, and was deemed to be an LM conversion. The current owner makes reference to it in the very first post in this thread. Exact wording from another post:

from https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/142645157/[/QUOTE]

I am not the first one here to wonder how this car every was deemed an LM/GTE conversion in period when all avaialble history and evidence shows that it was an F40 converted into a one-off racer in Germany by the well known tuners Hamann Motorsport, Sauber and raced by Hartmann Racing. It sported a totally different engine and body configuration to an real Michelotto LM even if superficially it looked like an LM.

See post in November 2017 by @PAUL500

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/145669664/

and the subsequent posts.

The present owner's answers to Paul's questions did not make sense to me, given I knew this car and the team owner quite well during its racing days. There are also posts by historian @tomgt to the same effect in the F40 LM GTE thread.

At no stage am I suggesting the the present owner is misleading us. He is merely relying on an existing statement by Sheehan.

Why bother discussing this at all: facts do matter at the end of the day. A bit like the infamous "The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread" on Jim Glickenhaus's P3/P4, no one is questioning the restoration, but historical facts do matter for the provenance. Secondly, all I am looking to do is to put the historical record straight: that until the previous owner started doing LM-style conversion work in the mid-2000's (long after it finished racing) this car was not in any way an LM/GTE conversion. In other words it is a modern day F40 LM-style conversion (albeit a very nice one). In my next couple of posts, I will share the relevant info. So please bear with me.

 

Michelotto car can get a red book (LMs) and the Michelotto conversions (GT Comp and GTEs) a white book.
ALL OTHERS can not be certified by F.

And magazines or should I say the uninformed writers/story tellers should stop calling a car a F40 LM, because IT IS NOT.

Why don’t they add “conversion” or “replica”??
Who informs those writers at EVO, Top Gear etc? Where do they get their WRONG info from. Too much BS written.

 

384.5 pages of detailed, lovingly restored F40 glorious goodness and now some people want to “correct” the record. I say start a new thread.

Traveler has my up most respect for sharing, curating and spending. This is his thread about that journey.

I respectfully request that anything more than that, start a new thread and the mods move the last 2 pages.

Can I get a second?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Fair question. First of all, as I have said in my posts above, I agree with you that this an amazing restoration. I have nothing at all negative about that effort.

All I have presented so far are some historical facts - not opinions. If those facts are wrong then the owner (or anybody else) can correct those mistakes, and we move on. If there are errors, then I will be the first to ask the moderators to deal with the posts. If, however, those facts are correct, then it adds to the completeness of the thread.

If this was a "For Sale" thread instead, I'd totally understand why you might want a separate thread.
But for a thread that has been so much about the detail of this car, I doubt we another just to understand its history.

 

Some of it is just poor journalism with regard to basic checks.

For example The EVO magzine article (https://www.evomagazine.com.au/ferrari-f40s-f40lm/) on this car states:

"All F40LMs started as road cars, but the first 19 were pulled from the production line and taken to Ferrari’s trusted race-car developer, Michelotto. Ferrari being Ferrari, more cars (another 27 to be precise) would be sold to go racing"

and driv*tribe (https://**********.com/p/the-story-of-the-ferrari-f40-lm-DA_E5hjqShahtZwTu3BmDg?iid=Q6K3oY9uSvGqcIDiqyBQ6Q)

"In total, a further 27 cars were made by privateers, completely unaffiliated with Michelotto's original run of cars. These cars were basically the same as Michelotto's"

I have always wondered where the 27 comes from, since Sheehan's article on conversions listed 30 in total. See current owner's post https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/142645157/

Well, it appears that there was a trivial error made by the current owner in the first post in this thread:

And whoever did the research at Evo and driv*tribe just copied that error from 5 years ago.

No big deal obviously, but does show how simple errors sometimes don't get picked up.

 

First of all thank you for your reply

Secondly, I have never said you have mislead anyone. I have been repeatedly clear about that in my posts above. Everything you say above about the car is consistent with what you have said before.

Thirdly, I think the central question is whether the car was ever converted to LM/GTE in period as claimed in Sheehan's article. It is what you have relied on for the title of this thread " F40 LM Restoration", Evo magazine "Restoring a legendary Ferrari F40 LM" or for that matter, in Portguese, "É assim que se restaura uma Ferrari F40 LM/GTE!" in Flatout in Brazil!

If the claim that car was indeed converted in period to LM/GTE is accurate, then we can throw away the last week's posts and go back to ogling at the amazing subject matter.

However, if it is not accurate, what you still have is a wonderful modern-day F40LM-style conversion/replica with a unique F40 history. But it would give the car a different provenance. It's not just semantics.

As I said above, I will post some more info shortly regarding the history in this regard (I too have a day job).

Lastly, to your first point, I did ask my wife. She said "all the information is out there for everyone to make their own mind up" which sounds identical to what you wrote above....I wonder why...

 

@BarryK

Having followed this thread over the years, some observations:

Without Tim's extensive efforts, this car, which has a real racing heritage, could easily have ended up in obscurity, like many F40s that raced in the 90s. What he has done is to showcase it wonderfully in this thread, his book, and the podcast to excite a whole new generation. There are plenty of other cars that have ended up just reverting to standard spec after racing, and their history is sadly "lost". Since you seem so focused on history, no doubt, you appreciate that.

He should be congratulated rather than be subjected to a proctology exam. That the car has changed and evolved over the years is just a fact of life for racing cars. They are not museum pieces.

If you have more history to enrich this thread then great, but the approach you seem to be taking is quite uncalled for.

 

I find it quite disappointing that after so many years and quite clearly no attempt to pass off this car for anything other than what it is, and you do not post hundreds of photos if you are trying to hide something, this rather disdainful attack has arisen. Why it has taken so many years for BarryK to waken from his slumber I do not know, but it is totally unwarranted. Take up a private dialogue if you have anything to add of value, but this trolling is of no benefit to anyone.
I am quite sure if you have, as you say, some valuable history for this car Traveller will be pleased to know.

 

In

Interesting reading through parts of this thread - a remarkable journey with a keen eye for detail. While I understand the interest in history, from what I read it seems the point of the thread was a detailed explanation of the journey to fully restore the car. Having bumped in to Tim both at the advanced driving course and on other threads, to me it's pretty clear he loves Ferrari and is a passionate participant, be it with the cars he owns or, spreading the love. It's a shame the thread moves in a different direction when all I think he's trying to do is show his passion for this restoration.

 

All the information has always been in this and other threads about the cars history right up to its current incarnation, so its just really a matter of interpretation I guess.

Some are rigid in their thinking and unless the hand of Ferrari carried out or sanctioned the work then for them its a step down from such a level, for me its about what it currently exists as, which is a genuine Ferrari F40 that is now to full and correct LM spec, which had a racing career by a privateer in period, up against the best of the best, including the mighty Mclaren F1.

The difference of opinion seems to be all down that one simple word, which Tim himself identified recently, that word being "spec". Tims car has been called an LM, as that's nice and simple and explains exactly the car as it currently stands, add spec at the end of LM and it should then cover all opinions however valid they may be

I also spotted the pistonheads advert as soon as the car was listed, rang my dad, and he was very serious about going to see it with a view to purchase, it would have meant a real overstretch financially even at the bargain price, and having seen what Tims resto later unearthed he did us a huge favour by getting in there quicker! as we would never have had the budget to do the car such justice.

 

What an absolute crock of [email protected] on earth high-jack such a great story

administrators should remove the last pages!

 

Just want to say thanks for bringing this up, because I wasn't aware of that list and thought 27 was the correct number (I admit I didn't have the time to check this thread in its entirety and Paul's answer to my comment was about the use of Michelotto's parts).

Peace.

 

+1

 

As promised: it's a long post, a drink and bathroom break first advisable Due to limit on post size, it is split into 3.

A brief history of F40 #84326 - The Hamann/Hartmann F40: Part 1 of 3

First, some background on the F40 #84326, the donor car for present owner’s restoration – the one and only Hartmann/Hamann F40. Chassis 84326 was a standard road car delivered in Feb 1990 in Germany as LB-HD811 D delivered to Helmut Daab, who owned the car for 2 years and he used it on track days, for example, at Mugello. It was brought to the well-known German tuner Richard Hamann, who had been tuning BMWs, notably the M3 with growing success. Hamann saw the potential with the F40 immediately. F40 was beginning to race thanks to the Ferrari/Michelotto effort with the F40LM (and later GTE), and he saw the opportunity to field a tuned F40 that could compete with the best that Italy could produce. However, without a sponsor or racing team, the scope of what he could achieve was limited by finances. However, having achieved amazing results with the M3 turbo (348hp – don’t laugh, it was good in the 80s, and not far off 395hp of the 288GTO) with little financial outlay, he sought to replicate the same with the F40. As he used to say, “We Germans do Italian better than the Italians”, followed by a hearty laugh. Unfortunately, it didn’t turn out that way with the Hamann F40 but it was an amazing car all the same.

Given tight finances, Hamann focused on what he did best – tuning engines. Sauber and Hamann worked together to up the power of the road car engine without losing reliability. In order to minimise risks, the stuck with tried and test technology. A pair of KKK water cooled turbo chargers with increased boost (as opposed to the Japanese IHI units and single wastegate used by Ferrari & Michelotto), and rigged up custom a intercooler and waste gate/exhaust set up (resulting in the splayed exhausts in the Hamann F40 vs the normal central triple exhausts on F40 and F40LM). This V-arrangement created space for the silencers and improved cooling. This arrangement was present in the car up until at least end of 2003 when the last publicly available photos of the Hamann F40 can be found in its original state.

F40 #84326, seen in Nov 2003, albeit repainted in blue(!):

https://barchetta.mediacenter.pro/?i=3359074&root=1964532%2c1964532&style=DarkMC&l=de&rd=1964532&fd=2255122

Heavy duty modifications were needed elsewhere with new custom crankshaft, pistons, driveshaft, suspension arms etc. Given the restricted finances, there was no Michelotto style weight saving programme involving rebodying almost all composite body panels (except the roof) with thinner versions which saved significant weight in the F40LM. The chassis was strengthened with aluminium (not carbon fibre), and the floor panel was now all metal rather than composite which was the case with the standard F40. Given the power increase over the standard car (initially up to 150hp more depending on boost), the fairly inefficient standard rear wing was replaced with a red painted glass fibre (later carbon) item for required downforce. At some point, a Michelotto wing was purchased off the shelf, but not used in competition. The nose required significant work as wider tyres were needed for the track (a common requirement). Instead of the standard car’s 245/45, 275/35 on lighter BBS wheels were used (after the initial trial with OZ). But as with the F40LM, the lack of space in the front required a significant redesign to accommodate the new larger brakes, cooling ducts etc. The oil radiator had been moved to the front because of insufficient cooling in the back. A new radiator (from an Audi, if I remember correctly) and a custom bonnet was designed allowing for the wider wheels, air flow for cooling and most importantly creating better aerodynamics at the front. (disclaimer: I am not an engineer).

Continued....next post

 

A brief history of F40 #84326 - The Hamann/Hartmann F40: Part 2 of 3

The interior, windows etc were left mostly unchanged except seats and harnesses for race regs compliance. During its racing life the only significant structural change was a sequential gearbox which improved lap times but made reliability worse. It had been removed by the time the car finished racing. In a parallel, a number of Michelotto cars (not LM which were always manual, but the GTEs) suffered similar issues with their chosen gearbox from X-trac. Rather than have a detailed technical comparison of the Michelotto F40LM and the Hamann F40, which serves no real purpose given their different starting points, below is a link to photos taken just after the car was completed at Hamann’s facility in Germany:

https://www.*************/blog/1994-hamann-f40/

and see my post above, the same configuration in 2012 (from the advert by Oakfields)

It should be clear form these that car had quite a different configuration to a Michelotto F40LM while obviously both cars are F40 based: Hamman’s F40 had a different bonnet, nose, much of the body work left unchanged from the standard F40 unlike the F40LM, and a different engine configuration, and then all the other differences not visible in the photos.

Having got the basic car up to speed quickly, Hamann wanted some marketing with a view of starting a run of Hamann-tuned F40s – and advertised in the motoring press (See magazine references below) for £130k or so plus a donor F40. So in 1994, it took part in the German Sport-Auto Magazine European Tuner Grand Prix at Hockenheim

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/zeiten-entwicklung-sport-auto-tuner-grand-prix-rundenzeiten-ueberblick-der-gesamtsieger-4969602.html

with a run of 1.08 on the Short Circuit but mechanical issues meant that the car exited the competition early, and was unable to claim the prize. Admittedly much of the competition was lesser metal - tuned BMWs, Mercs, and Golfs, but a good start nevertheless. If you use the slide show (two clicks left) at the top of the page in the link above, you can see the otherwise red car sporting a pair of yellow mirrors – which was the result of Hamann losing a small bet. Note also the Yokohoma tyres vs Pirellis chosen by Michelotto. This decision turned out to be smart move in retrospect by Michelotto who designed the LMs for even wider front tyres (305 vs 275), and when racing got underway, those tyres made a big difference to the LM’s performance.

The next step was to get the car into GT racing which was BPR at the time. In 1994-5 restrictors were still in place, but in 1996 the Hamann F40 was ready for racing. Working with Hartmann Racing, the car entered BPR, but only for the two of the 11 races where, as Sheehan’s article says, it finished second to last at the 4 Hours at the Spa and DNF at the 4 Hours at the ‘Ring. Unfortunately, speed was an issue.

At the Nurburgring on 30-06-1996 it ran with Michelotto’s GTE #90001, GTE# 82404, LM # 74045, and GTE #88779 not to mention a some cars called F1 GTR . Against a best lap time of 1.37.81 for the F40GTEs, the Hartmann 84326 could only manage 1.46.65 in field also filled with 911 GT2, putting its laptime 33rd out of 47 cars. Spa-Francorchamps on 22-09-1996 was a similar story, again with a similar field of GTE #90001, GTE # 82404 and LM # 74045. This time the result was a DNF. Best lap was 2:17.185 for the F40GTEs but 2.33.437 for the Hartmann #84326 putting it 33rd in a field of 37. Given the lack of competitiveness and the imminent FIA “take-over” of BPR, it was decided to hang up the racing boots. By the time the ISR series arrived the following year, the writing was on the wall for all F40s – enter the Ferrari 333SP. With the end of its 2 race career, it was also clear that Hamann’s vision for a production run of his conversion was not going to be realised, and so F40 #84326 became a unique car.

Note that the car always raced as an F40 never an F40LM in the event records. See

http://www.racingsportscars.com/race/Nurburgring-1996-06-30.html

http://www.racingsportscars.com/race/Spa-1996-09-22.html


In retrospect, the lack of finance was what ultimately handicapped the car. Hartmann’s F40 was easily 15% heavier in racing weights vs the Michelotto cars due to leaving much of the bodywork unchanged, and in GT1 racing specs, had lower power than the LMs and GTEs. Hard to know how much, Richard estimated 40hp. Obviously, in unrestricted form, boost be increased and get very good times, at the cost of reliability – for example at the Hockenheim Tuner Event 1994. Secondly, though it has been said that the drivers were not top calibre, I believe (and this is a personal remark) that Holz/Pfeiffer/Stabler/Fritsch were all top notch, but sadly let down by an undersized racing effort certainly compared to the likes of Ennea/Igol/Pilot etc with their F40GTEs and LM.

However, it took all the ingenuity of Richard Hamann, Jorg Hartmann and the team at Sauber to pull together this amazingly high performance, and unique F40 which could go head to head with Michelotto’s finest. It was David vs Goliath.

Continued...next post

 

A brief history of F40 #84326 - The Hamann/Hartmann F40: Part 3 of 3

All of the above is just background. I have included some comments which are just from personal experience but much of the factual info can be cross-checked against some magazine articles from the time: Auto Magazine 02/94 and Top Car magazine in Feb 1994(extracts can be seen in the next post). If anyone wants to check, please PM me but I am mindful of copyright, so ebay may be the best route.There are also German language articles but I will need to find them first.

Even ignoring the commentary, the pictures speak for themselves in that the car as designed by Hamann was broadly unchanged until at least 2003 and that the car was fundamentally different to a Michelotto LM not just because of history but also mechanically.

I am less sure about the later history after the car was sold to Dagobert von Garel in the post-BPR period. I believe he raced in in the Ferrari-Porsche challenge perhaps once, and then the next time I saw it pop up was at as a no sale at Brooks Auction in Monaco in 1999. I don’t have records, however. And the next time I saw it was around Christmas one month ago on page 1/2 of this thread, where I also saw the advert posted by someone showing the car for sale by Oakfield’s Ian Donaldson in 2002 (see crops on my post above) which shows the car still broadly in its original 1994 Hamann F40 configuration. By 2012, it had acquired an LM-look as I posted above.

If you got this far, then it is hopefully obvious that the car was never an original Michelotto car, or a Michelotto LM conversion. It was a German product of Hartmann/Hamann/Sauber but, most importantly, a competitor to the Michelotto LMs and GTEs.

Unfortunately, like many racing cars which don’t build up a stellar history, this one ended up unloved, until 2012 when the present owner opened a new chapter. Unfortunately, wittingly or unwittingly, the combination of the Sheehan article error where he called in an LM/GTE conversion, and the absence of an in-depth history in this thread means that the work of Hartmann/Hamann/Sauber gets mostly lost.

And, because it is more valuable today to have a car with an LM-history rather than a less well-known Hamann/Hartmann-history, it has been easier to just let sleeping dogs lie. There have been various ideas floated that this car was LM-spec in some way. There are certainly racing specs like F1, GT2 to which different manufacturers produce racing cars. But LM-spec means using LM parts. And, as a competitor, F40 #84326 didn’t. Preserving the car in the racing configuration may have been one route, but equally, for commercial reasons, I can see why it made sense go recently down the LM-style restoration route. But that shouldn’t mean history get re-written for convenience.

The truth is #84326 was a unique F40 involving the genius of one of the finest tuners of our time, Richard Hamann, and the racing/engineering prowess of Hartmann and Sauber. It was a full-on competitor to Michelotto’s F40LM. So, pretty please, let’s not call it an in period LM/GTE conversion .

 

Finally, magazine references from preceding 3 posts - A brief history of F40 #84326 - The Hamann/Hartmann F40

I am posting the text from the Top Car Feb 1994 article entitled Fourth Dimension below, but will remove it if required by copyright.

Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

In this post, I draw attention to the lack of accuracy in Michael Sheehan's article which is central to the claim that the current owner's car was converted in period to LM/GTE spec, albeit non-Michelotto original:

It's quite long, but for those who want a summary can skip to the bottom.

-------------------------
Cavallino 125 Oct/Nov 2001 (https://dacorsa.com/magazines/cav/125/index.html)

The reluctant racer - Ferrari F40
All the chassis numbers of the LMs, GTs, GTEs, and the conversions
The Ferrari F40 becomes a true competition machine. All the cars, the chassis numbers, the build numbers, etc. A working register of these wondrous supercars.

from https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/142645157

Note that Sheehan calls it a working registry

It lists 30 cars of F40 variants that have been modified and/or have raced in some form. There are separate lists for original Michelotto F40 LM, Michelotto F40 GTE, Michelotto F40 GT, and finally F40 conversions.

Point 1: Sheehan does not call this last list of F40 conversions "privateer LMs" or "unofficial LMs" for the simple reason that they are not. Some are described as mildly modified, others highly modified, a 4 have the term LM in the description and one as LM/GTE spec. The F40 conversions list includes cars which are almost road-car standard but known to have raced to much more heavily modified cars. As we will see, it really is a catch-all bucket for any type of F40 racing-mod outside of the official categories of LM, GTE and GT. For instance, it contains 6 cars modified to race in the Italian GT in the early 90's where the Italian GT race specifications would have prevented an LM taking part and the F40 GT spec was a more modest tweak.

Point 2: The list has several errors, and some of the descriptions are not consistent:

1) #83405 is described as having raced in the BPR series. As I have posted before (https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/145790882), it never did. See https://dacorsa.com/championships/bpr/index.html or http://www.racingsportscars.com/championship/BPR.html for full list of participants for each race. There are books on BPR for reference as well.

2) F40 #80749 is listed as a club racer. However, earlier editions of Cavallino magazine iteself ironnically document the epic races this car and it sister #83667 fought in 1997

https://dacorsa.com/magazines/cav/101/index.html

Ferrari gains ground in Inter-Marque rivalry
Ferrari-Porsche Challenge in Europe
Initially, the Ferraris were facing a difficult time, overwhelmed as they were by hordes of Porsches, but lately, they've gained ground. Louis Machiels brought his modified F40, s/n 83667 and eventually came in a remarkable second place.

Somehow Sheehan missed that they competed in an International Ferrari-Porsche inter-marque series. Other cars such as #80782 are however recognised as participating in the series. So lacks consistency.

PS: for some truly epic action with these cars, see , with #83667 near 14:28

3) There is the bizzare and tragic case of #80726 which was destroyed in a fatal accident 1993, and said to have been rebuilt as a F40LM by Sheehan. The car was to be sold at auction but was withdrawn. Note that all we can see is that the next owner had the "intention to convert to LM but never took place and remained a standard road car"
https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1989-ferrari-f40
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/f40-silverstone-auctions-withdrawn.559704/
Sheehan also says that the car raced in the French GT 1997, but there is no sign. See
http://www.racingsportscars.com/championship/FFSA%20GT.html for list of entrants.

4) Perhaps the most strange error, having described #80726 as an LM when it was never converted, is to then do the opposite. #83405 was converted to Michelotto GTE spec and raced with Team Ennea which raced other official F40GTEs in the BPR series.
See my earlier post (https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/145790882). Sheehan merely describes this car as merely highly modified!

5) #84326 is described as LM/GTE conversion. There is no evidence that such a conversion ever took place as per my 3 posts above. The car remained in the bespoke Hamman/Hartmann configuration from inception in 1994 up to at least end of 2003, long after it retired, as evidenced by the rpeceding 3 posts above and discussed in my earlier posts. It is only later that the owners started an LM-style conversion.

Point 3: There are other heavily modified cars, some with racing histories not on the list.

E.g the Simpson Engineering F40s (e.g. #80856) or their fascinating F40 V12 (one for your project @PAUL500 !)
http://www.psychoontyres.co.uk/tag/f40/
http://www.racingsportscars.com/cars/search.html?make=Ferrari&type=F40&page=4

or the black F40 LM-style conversion with the 3.5 (or possibly 3.6) litre engine (GTE capacity), chassis #91502

By definition, list is not complete as some of these have been converted after the article was written in 2001. So, trying to argue whether there were 27 or 30 conversions is pointless. There were lots in various shades of grey, and some were almost standard road cars e.g #88538 or #80726 and atleast one was full GTE spec built by Michelotto which should have been on the official GTE list rather than the conversion bucket, #83405. So, is trying to pin down how many cars raced, as evidenced by the two cars in Point 2, item 2 (#83667, #80749 above). These cars did major races, but not picked up by the article.

Summary:

1) Sheehan's article was a working registry of race modified/racing F40s
2) They were not "unofficial" or privateer LM conversions. There were a mixed bag of privately modified cars except one, which is in the list by mistake. Nor does he use the term LM-spec to describe a generic modification to race - only 5 of the 30 cars on the list have the term "LM" in the description.
3) There are many errors regarding the conversion status or history. I gave up checking after finding the first half a dozen above among the first 20 on the list. One fully Michelotto F40GTE described as just "highly modfied" while another that was not converted at all is descirbed as "LM Specs".
4) Unfortunately, the current owner's car #84326 is subject to such an error. There is no doubt that the car raced in BPR as described, but never was a LM/GTE conversion as stated.

In Sheehan's defence, he does say its a working registry, not a definitive work as claimed in this thread. But it shows, placing much reliance on it is dangerous.

 

In this final post, I attempt to summarise all of the above:

1) The Hamann F40 #84326 which is the donor for this restoration raced as an F40 modified by Hartmann/Hamann/Sauber in 1994-96 to create a competitor to the Michelotto F40LM

2) It never was converted during to its lifetime of racing to an F40LM of any kind.

3) Available evidence shows that the car remained broadly it its original configuration until at least 2003, long after it retired. At this point it's owners began a program of converting it to resemble the original F40LM.

4) Any claim that this car is an F40LM/GTE conversion (in period) as opposed to a a modern-day LM look/conversion/replica etc should be viewed in light of the available evidence. There are plenty of places starting from EVO magazine to the current owners' profile that do not make that distinction, and I invite them to consider the above information.

I do not intend to post on this subject again except to answer specific questions, and correct any factual errors I have made.

PS: I have many hundreds of photos of this car from the Hamann/Hartmann period in the 90s. Happy to share if and when I can scan the slides. Please PM if interested.

 

Post 3866 above with photos of Hamann F40 at launch:

The link had been blanked out by the system. Substitute

sup*rc*rs.net

 

You need a hobby.

 

Barry what's your issue? Do you have a bone to pick? Wldnt it have been smarter to address this offline with Tim rather than doing this to the thread?

Sent from my BBB100-3 using Tapatalk

 

You used the word smart which is not applicable in his case sir!

This thread has been totally F’d up, just the way some ass or asses want it....clearly senior traveller has given someone’s wife a good shagging and even more apparent he never went back for more.....actually, yet again, and as always, well done to traveller!!

 

Feels like someone bad sends a cleaner to kill the passion...

But no chance to me, this forum, this place is made by guys like Tim,
full of love and passion for our brand and with threads like this,
they create pinnacle in this forum!

And i gave a shi. on people who try to kill this!

Forza Tim!