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Doing a major...

Discussion in '360/430' started by Ghostdiver, Dec 4, 2017.

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  1. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Okay, for all those that have been waiting for an update....here ya go. Delivered direct from across the pond, several misc. parts including brand new tensioner assy. Hopefully, this will cure the issue with being able to set tension or set clearance but not both. The tensioners are the new style per the tech bulletin along with new mounting bolts.

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  2. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Good thing is now I have the ultra rare, unobtainium locking tools for the tensioners.....slowly I am building up a supply of Ferrari specialty tools......

    Can't believe the cost I paid for the tensioner mounting bolts which amounts to what looks like a standard bolt.....

    For the price of the bolts I would have assumed they would have come in a red horsey box with foam cutouts like the Ti lug bolts, and a cavallino forged on the head to boot.

    But no.....no special box, no horsey on the head....disappointed
     
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  3. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    You would think with all this time off, I'd have plenty of time to work on my car....but no, between Harvey renovations and honey dues, it's taking longer than planned.

    Good news is timing components are back together and set correctly with new Ferrari tensioners and mounting bolts and new Hill tensioner pulleys. Looking at the date codes on the original tensioners, one appears to be original--dated 5/99 I assume, which is interesting considering the car is a December 1999 production. Other tensioner is dated 12/03 and it appears to have the updated mounting bolts (gold cad plating, head stamped V# just like the new ones I bought. Not sure if these are TTY bolts but I would be curious to know if they could have been reused given the huge price difference.

    I did not degree the cams, I just did a lock and swap. Before I button this up though, I would like to double check timing marks, etc. One issue is difficulty locating the crank timing marks. There are marks on the cams that correspond with each other and I plan on pulling the rear covers to check the marks there. However, is there a mark on the crank driven gears that corresponds to TDC or due you just go off the #1 piston being at TDC? Coming from domestic V8's I'm used to timing marks on the gears, etc. but not being able to find the crank mark, it's a little different.

    Next up, paint and reinstall coolant tank, flush remaining coolant out and refill....

    Pics for your enjoyment.....
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  4. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Soapbox time.....

    Having been in the auto industry for many years, my skill set allows me to work on my own vehicles be it a Chevy, Nissan, Harley, or even a Ferrari. Some of my friends have even said they wouldn't have undertaken this and they have as much background in industry as I do. Anyway, I say this because those people that choose not to work on their own vehicle or don't have the abilities to do so have to rely on dealers or third party mechanics, and they put their trust in these people to treat their car right.

    One of the simplest things is an oil change. Yet, I have seen drain plugs dipped in silicon because the mechanic stripped out the drain plug and the owner is none the wiser. Another issues is the oil filter. Whether the filter is mounted thread up, thread down, or thread sideways, you always put a light coating of oil on the o-ring seal. I have never heard of not doing this--it's common sense! But, when let someone else do the work, you are trusting they will do it right. This is not the case in all circumstances. I'm pretty sure this is what happened to me on my last annual....

    First filter tool didn't fit, so I ordered a another brand. People had said they had issues with the other brand because the spot welds broke that held the plate to the body. I wasn't really worried about it since I am doing this for myself and not a shop. If I had been doing this at a shop, I would have had no problem buying the $75.00 Hill Eng. filter wrench. I had tried to take the filter off before with a standard level type wrench and couldn't budge it. Tonight, I attempted to remove the filter with the new tool. Again, I couldn't budge it with the 3/8 drive ratchet either. Okay, got the big dog out--Dewalt 20v Max XR cordless impact. Now, this is the wrench I got to loosen the center lock nuts on my 430CH wheels if I was ever on the side of the highway which are torqued down to 400+ ft-lbs.

    This impact is a beast--700 ft-lbs tightening torque and a whole 1200 ft-lbs in reverse. IT DIDNT BREAK THE FILTER LOOSE!!! It snapped all the spot welds on the tool and it took a few hits to do that! Granted I was stepped down from 1/2 drive to 3/8 but still, it should have bust a friggin' oil filter loose! This tells me that the SOB that changed my oil last didn't put any oil on the filter o ring at all and torqued it down.

    So, for the love of God, put some oil on the oring before installing the filter!!

    Okay...of my soapbox now!

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  5. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    One thing of note on the tensioners....on the left side which was replaced in 2003 I believe, there is a rubber bushing in the ear with the long bolt. If you look closely, you can see the bushing is worn at the 12 o'clock position. This is not something that I have heard about before so for all of you doing your own belts, check that bushing. You can't see it with the bolt in but you don't necessarily have to remove the tensioner to see it--just the bolt
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  6. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    So, what was the conclusion? What was the root cause of apparently not being able to set tension correctly? Tensioner(s) were bad?
     
  7. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Since I was able to set the tension correctly as soon as I replaced the tensioners themselves, I am leaning towards faulty/worn tensioners. The rubber bushing on the left tensioner was worn as evidence of the egg shaped appearance which was not seen on the new one. Not sure if this was a factor or not, maybe I'm just trying to justify the cost of the tensioners to myself...
     
  8. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    An additional benefit to changing the tensioners...the new tensioners are aluminum vs. cast iron/steel.....weight savings!
     
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  9. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    Good to hear - thanks for the update!
     
  10. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Oil filter has been removed and new installed. Welded up the adapter and it may not be pretty but just like an ugly girl, it got the job done!

    Some info.....

    Oil seal on filter was dry....squeaked when I removed it!

    Filter that was removed is the old style...filter tool fit loose on it but tight on the new one

    Pretty sure WSM says tighten to 18 ft lbs but filter says 30 Nm...


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  11. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Well, guys & gals, I'm stuck....

    I've got the new belts, tensioners, tensioner pulleys all installed and adjusted in spec. I did not degree the cams, but rather did a lock an swap. My issue is I did not mark or take note of the cam pulleys prior to doing this. My OCD nature wanted to verify everything is lined up prior to putting everything back together and this is where the issue is.

    There are marks on the cam pulleys (yellow and black) that appear to be factory marks (their lines are straight) and they will line up with each corresponding color mark (3 o'clock on the exhaust to 9 o'clock on the intake).
    When lining up these marks (black or yellow) the other bank is not lined up. Not sure if both banks are supposed since I didn't mark this beforehand....
    If I try to line up the hash marks on the pulleys with the raised line on the valve cover, only one cam will be lined up....
    I can turn the engine over and unless the valves are extremely soft, I have not contacted them at all. (spark plugs are still in)
    It appears the cams were degreed at some point but the marks that are their now, are throwing me.....

    My choices are take a chance and put it back together since I know the cams didn't move during the lock and swap but I can't be certain of the driven gear (crank did not move)
    Trailer the car 80 miles to my Indy to let them check it over
    Pull valve covers and put a dial indicator on to verify timing

    Any suggestions....
     
  12. 02360spider

    02360spider Formula 3

    May 27, 2015
    1,753
    Dartmouth
    Full Name:
    Richard oliveira
    I wouldn't risk it when I did mine we locked and swapped but put markes every where.

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  13. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    The more I think about it, I'm leaning towards pulling covers and verifying.....
     
  14. 02360spider

    02360spider Formula 3

    May 27, 2015
    1,753
    Dartmouth
    Full Name:
    Richard oliveira
    I would that is some scary stuff lol

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  15. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Whats the worst that can happen.....a little more tone in the exhaust! Might sound like a Chevy then!
     
  16. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    While making the decision on which way to go, I figured I'd gather my tools of the trade. It's been awhile since I used my degree wheel and dial indicators but I was pretty sure I could put my hands on them. Dial indicator...check, degree wheel....MIA. Damn, have to go get one. Shouldn't be that bad from what I remember. Local auto parts store may even have them. Well, I guess the price of degree wheels has gone up, either that or it knows I'm working on a Ferrari.....
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  17. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    7,163
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Check jegs

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  18. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2012
    794
    Cheshire UK
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    90 degree, V8, flat plane crank.
    When one bank is at TDC the other bank’s 4 pistons are at mid-stroke (aren’t they?).....
    Are the marks on your cam sprockets set to be lined up at TDC for each bank?
    So when you lined-up one bank, were the other marks 90 degrees out?

    I’d take the plugs out if I was turning the engine over.....The valves are very slender.

    I hope it works out for you.


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  19. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    If my local speed shop doesn't have one, Amazon has one for slightly less than Autozone....
     
  20. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Correct on the pistons from what I know. Cam sprockets are not lined up with marks on valve cover or rear marks from what I can see. However, cam sprockets DO line up with the paint marks already on the gears. I should have marked the block/head when the gears were lined up with the pain marks but I didn't do that...Also, I didn't mark the driven gears....

    Good news is when I pull both valve covers and plugs, I'll be able to run a compression check! Have to look for the positive I guess....
     
  21. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
  22. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,678
    Silicon Valley
    Good to know! If you have the OEM straps, it’s only a matter of time before they fall apart.


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  23. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    I do have the OEM straps.....in the box that the new leather ones were shipped in!
     
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  24. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,678
    Silicon Valley
    LOL!


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