458 or new GT3

1. My GT3 will be a manual. I'm a hardcore manual guy and I've never owned anything with flappy paddles. Former 3 pedal guys....do you miss rowing your own?

I'm a hardcore manual guy, too, but the current PDK is just so brilliant. Anyway, this tips in favor of the GT3, the only current car with that kind of performance with a true 3 pedal.

2. I track my cars...about 3-5 times a year. How is the 458 as a track car? How quickly does it go through consumables (brakes/tires). Does the car continue to feel robust after track days? I am now running in the advanced group at most tracks. I know Porsches take a beating and keep asking for more.

I have a 458 Italia, am an advanced driver, too, and do about as many track days/yr. I have taken the 458 to Sonoma Raceway and Laguna Seca. It's brilliant. I know Porsche has done wonders with the 991 chassis, but there's really no substitute for a mid-engine car. My 458 is box stock with MPSS street tires and I enjoy passing Speciales, especially on wet tracks with their Sport Cup2s. The car does not feel at all tired after a 20 min. session or after a full day of them. Tire consumption seems fine. That said, I limit my track days with that car. Brakes as you note are $$$. I've been tempted to upgrade the tires (was looking into getting a set of Speciale wheels/tires!), but that will only put more stress on components. Nothing's ever broke (knock on wood), but be aware that if something does, it's going to cost more than the same parts in a Porsche, and at least by reputation, the Porsche is probably less likely to break anything. Going to steel rotors isn't a bad idea, but if you only track 3-5 times a year, I'm not sure I'd do that. The carbon ceramics are great. I still have maybe 4mm on the pads after 13k miles overall and a handful of track days. I'm not as hard on my brakes as others I know, so the rate of wear might be less than for other people. But GT3s have carbon ceramics, too, so you'd have the same issue. I'd rule this a tie with a slight edge to the GT3.

3. I'm a bit of car car Schizo....I've had about 20 cars and Im only 33. This purchase (458 or GT3) will be a big one for me. I need to make sure its the right one. I don't want to be trying to get something else in a year or 2....and my better half will kill me for sure, lol. Do you all think I will be happy with a 458 long term?

I think you would, but that's so personal. You don't say what cars were among the 20. If most of them were boring, well, that explains it. But if they were all special like Porsches, Ferraris, etc., then you are the man! I've had my 458 for about 2 years and still really like it. The sound is super. But you're likely to like the GT3 also, because of the manual transmission.

4. Maintenance: Will I regret my purchase due to maintenance costs? Obviously tracking the car will require more upkeep. I plan on doing easy stuff like oil changes and replacing brake pads and such myself. I'll probably take the CF rotors off and set them aside and use steel for the track. Those CF rotors ain't cheap to replace every 5-8 track days.

Only if something breaks. Both cars should receive annual fluid changes, but both manufacturers insist that the transmissions are "lifetime fill."

Overall, it's your choice. I think you can't go wrong with either. 458 sound and fury vs. GT3 manual transmission. But I will say it's really difficult to get a GT3 allocation around here, and it will be new with a warranty. There are many used 458s available. I think this tips the scales to the Porsche.

 

I don't think the 458 is faster than a 991.2 GT3 (given the same driver) at any track.

 

The GT3 is certainly faster in the corners, but the 458 should have a straight line advantage (due to its power) - so I guess it will actually depend on the track.

 

Drive the GT3 3-5k miles a year and the depreciation will be marginal. Rack up those miles on a 458 and the depreciation will sting.

 

Spyder,

Have owned them, 458 and a GT3 RS. Recently punted the RS for an F12 as I wasn't getting to track really anyway and the car still had a lot of "above MSRP" value left in (very unique spec). All that being said, if you are going to track, the GT3 is a better option. Track'd both my RS and my 458 (my RS was paddles obviously) and it was born and bred for the track and was a terrible daily user (my opinion) 458 was better in that regard (ok track/great street). Given you kept the boxster spyder (me too best car Porsche has made in a really long time) you got the street covered. I'd say go GT3 but know the car is going to get wailed on in value (some people really care about this, some people don't). The 458's have reached stability so that's less of an issue. I've driven the new GT3 a bunch in Atlanta on the track and it's amazing for that. As some of mentioned here you won't love it driving around everyday but you got the spyder so who cares. I'd say GT3 if you are agnostic to value.

 

Of course they do; just don't expect the California to be such a car. Also a lot of Ferraris are being tracked all around the world.

 

Take it from someone who has a 991.1 GT3, a 991.2 GT3 Manual, and a 488. There will ALWAYS be better and better PDK cars. The 992 GT3 with its new 8-speed PDK will be better than the current one, etc.

However...there will NEVER be another naturally-aspirated, manual transmissioned GT3 ever again. Buy the GT3 Manual. You can always enjoy the other PDK cars in the future. BTW, the GT3 Manual has launch control, flat shift and rev match capabilities.

 

Sage advice. How did you know I've been struggling all day with the decision of PDK or Manual for my June-build GT3?! Maybe you just helped me make up my mind...

 

458... you won't believe how good it is on track... and it's oh so beautiful.......

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I highly contest that the new GT3 will get "...wailed on in value...". The new GT3 is the last naturally-aspirated, manual transmissioned-GT3 that Porsche will make. A 2010 GT3 still sells for $100000 and that car was only $125000 7 years ago. The GT3 is brand new for $175000. The 458 in that price range is 7 years old. Buy the GT3...

 

One more thing....IF you somehow are dissatisfied with your 2018 GT3, you can sell that car in 30 seconds (for more than you paid), and go buy that 458. I highly doubt such a situation occurs; however, it'll be harder to dump a 458 in 30 seconds and recoup your costs to move to a GT3.

 

I agree with you, Motorwerks. However, the discussion reminds me of the air cooled/water cooled debates of past; there is no denying the romance of the air cooled cars, but the water cooled cars are superior, in power, emissions, driving experience, etc; it depends on what experience you desire; Once I started using clutchless upshifts on my 899 panigale, I realized the clutch delay and unweighting/weighting of drivetrain is wasteful and perhaps dangerous in some situations (eg a high speed corner). I like a manual, but I also liked my air cooled 964, which I would never revisit. There may be some value to the last N/A and being a manual, however the new turbo base cars are superior to the N/A cars they replace, this will happen with the next GT3 as well.

 

Just because they are newer, not because turbocharging is superior. Case in point, the new N/A V12s from Ferrari and Lamborghini. They smaller and more mass prodiced models though will have to be turbocharged in order to combine emissions with performance.

BTW I don't get the fascination with the manual either. Maybe it's an american thing as most cars there are automatics; in Europe we 've been driving manuals all our lives...

 

I don’t trust Porsche with the “this is the last x” nonsense.
It all comes around again.
If I’m wrong, then buy in when the move is true over the next 10years and hold.
But the gen coming after us won’t care, as history shows over and over again.
We will be old dogs barking over a long forgotten past.

 

Do agree if the move is the GT3 I would only do a manual as one poster said you can always get a PDK which is the best in the business on the GT cars. I do think a GT3 can be had a MSRP post the hype unless you need it now? Good luck with your choice ...........

 

clarification: not superior because they have turbochargers, superior in the driving experience . . . throttle response, torque curve (real and perceived), hp/L;

 

Remember that's a good Metzger engine which many think is the holy grail at Porsche ........don't old your breath it's the last NA motor at Porsche that was the same rumor with the 991.1 GT3, and people flooded paying crazy ADM's. I waited a few months and paid MSRP ....two years later sold a MSRP now they're about 30k under MSRP. I always say buy a car to enjoy, and don't try to forecast the market because the majority of the time you get burned. Recall the 911 R was the last manual with a 200k MSRP car sold in the high 600k range and now down to the 300k range. I do agree the GT3 manual is a great car just sucks on the street, and hard to have fun without getting arrested

 

Certainly not better in throttle response compared to the N/A engines. Funnily enough Porsche's head of GT development commented on this recently:

“Natural aspiration is one of our main USPs,” Andreas Preuninger, head of GT car development at Porsche told Autocar earlier this year. “At Motorsport, we think we can achieve throttle response and immediacy a little bit better with an atmospheric high-revving engine than any kind of turbo.”
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/porsche-718-boxster-spyder-use-911-gt3-flat-six-power

 

Great point!


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Porsche always underrate their engines and Ferrari overrates. The 991.1 GT3 was faster to 0-100 on mosts test in the real world due to faster shifting/launch control, but over 100 458 pulls away slightly. The 991.2 is a bit faster in a straight line than a 458 from a dig now.

The 991 generation is so capable now that it is not fun on the street. Too much grip, too refined and you can't use all the revs. The GT3 feels alive when your are going hard on it. The 458 is more fun at low speeds. It all depends how you are going to use the cars. When you start modding your GT3s then it really starts to come alive with comparable high pitch sound and excitement. Or just grab a 997 GT3 also manual and more fun on the street as limit is lower.

 

Last manual na was supposed to be the 911 r, and look how that turned out. Nonetheless if you are looking for something that will hold better value buy a gt3 manual and don't drive it much

 

Actually the numbers say the opposite; quicker than even the 991.2 GT3: http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel2979-6715.htm

 

A 911 has always been very good at the initial launch because the rear engine set-up provides more weight (and more traction) on the rear wheels; but afterwards power talks...

Back to the question - new GT3 vs used 458, I think it's indeed not obvious.
The GT3 is more "limited", so it will hold value well, but the 458 has already been hit by a significant depreciation, so it will only lose value slowly and on a limited way now (before it starts to regain value some years from now).
Money considerations aside, the GT3 and 458 are different, so it cannot be said one is superior to the other.
The GT3 is more focussed, while the 458 has a wider range of abilities. It all depends on what one is looking for.