Ferrari heritage cars coming? | FerrariChat

Ferrari heritage cars coming?

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by BarryK, Feb 20, 2018.

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  1. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

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    I was at the 488 Pista unveil at the dealer today, which wasn't the most interesting piece of news I heard. So the factory is building some vintage cars on 812 running gear. Apparently a 750 Monza is already done and a 250 TR is on the way. Anyone know more about this?

    So not quite a heritage car in the Jaguar sense, but still.
     
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  2. carguyjohn350

    carguyjohn350 F1 Rookie
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    This doesn't exactly sound vintage in any sense of the word.

    I am actually not sure how to feel about Ferrari building new old cars. On the one hand, they seem to be willing to do ANYTHING to make a buck (and could probably sell every new old TR or GTO or whatever they wanted to build), on the other hand, Enzo always said his favorite car was the next one, and a mark of greatness is looking ahead rather than back, so I don't know what to think. However, I maintain anything based on an 812 cannot be described as vintage.
     
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  3. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

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    Agree, they can't be called vintage in the usual sense, and I am sure they'll make good money selling it as a limited edition car. But does make you wonder whether the eventual goal is full reproduction of historical cars, like Jaguar.
     
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  4. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    It seems to me there's a world of difference between reskinning current cars (eg Clapton's 458 or the 812 as above) and Jaguar's heritage stuff - having said that Ferrari have in the past built replicas of their historical vehicles and for Classiche to build another dozen continuation 250GTOs is probably just a matter of time
     
  5. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    I think we will see more of this across the board. The love for "vintage" looks, from cars to everything else, has enough of a market base now for large companies to cater to it.

    Watch companies like Omega and Tudor have been very successful in the past few years with releasing re-editions of watches from the 50's, 60's and 70's, some quite faithful to the originals, some "inspired" by them. What you describe above sounds like what Omega did last year by releasing their 60th Anniversary "trinity" set of watches that mimic the 1957 Seamaster, Railmaster, and Speedmaster in every way, except they have current technology movements....just like a "64 GTO body on top an 812 engine.

    While I don't think of it as a substitute for the real thing, I don't think it's bad. Newer cars are generally safer and much more reliable for daily driving, and we have to face the fact that as time marches on, environmental laws will make it tougher to drive our old cars in many areas (Amsterdam is said to be banning cars over 15 years old from the city within a few years, for example...and I've heard similar stories about Paris and London). Our vintage cars may be permanently exiled to the country, or become usable only as "historic vehicles" before very long. So if I'm forced to drive a new car in the city in 10 years, I'd much rather drive one that looks like a 275 GTB or a '64 GTO than I would an 812.
     
  6. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    Jaguar's new D-types are exactly that, faithful reproductions of historic cars. An 812 dressed up to look like a 750 Monza, or a 250 TR is a pastiche. I fear the result will look rather horrendous. Unless there is a major re-engineering of the running gear, the proportions will be all wrong, and what will they do about the wheels?
     
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  7. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
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    I don't know how the rules work with regards to what Jaguar are doing (I assume they're not intended to be road legal?) but surely any car company cannot just chuck out a few more of their 1960s models because they wouldn't meet any of the legal requirements for new cars including that they would surely be counted against them from an emissions point of view. At least in the UK the rules are different if you are an individual or rebuying an existing car but neither would apply to Ferrari.

    I wait to see but I imagine that, if these rumours are true, they will turn out to something 'inspired by' (like Jim Glickenhaus' was inspired by the 330 P4) rather than something intended to be a recreation on modern running gear.

    Jonathan
     
  8. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Another murderer atempt at ferrari by the Sweater...
     
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  9. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Apparently they can, this was covered in the Pur Sang thread. At least in some states, you can register a "continuation" car as the year of the original.

    Given the small number of cars this would apply to, and the even smaller number of miles these cars would drive, it makes total sense.

     
  10. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

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    There do seem to be several of shades of grey in Ferrari's thinking in the "inspired by" to "full recreation" spectrum:

    1) They've done the lowest rung of the ladder in the "inspired by" end with the 350 70th anniversary livery cars where you take a modern car and apply a historic pain scheme and trim the interior in the historic style. Some look nice, others look horrendous, and yet others barely discernible as anything special unless you spot the 70th anniversary badge. All the cars are mechanically standard.

    2) Next up is the "inspired by" body work e.g Clapton's car. These currently sit with the one-offs/special projects department.

    3) Next up would be reproduction bodies of historical cars with modern running gear. These are the 750 Monza on 812 rumours I refer to. No idea just highly modified the underlying 812 platform is to deal with dimensions, wheels, etc. These could conceivably turned into a limited run for each type. The back catalogue is not small.

    4) Full heritage reproduction a la Jaguar SS. No sign of these yet, but as some say above, only a matter of time before the Sweater can no longer resist the smell of $$$.
     
  11. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    Is this really necessary? Is nothing sacred?
     
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  12. Lusso123

    Lusso123 Formula 3
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    "Vintage".....all too often used incorrectly - just look at thousands of BS eBay listings calling new items of all types "vintage." Similar to many persons misuse of the terms "scratch built", and "museum quality."
     
  13. Gran Drewismo

    Gran Drewismo F1 Rookie

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    For most, money trumps all.
     
  14. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    Indeed. There is no such thing as a Vintage Ferrari. Vintage cars are those that were built up to 1930.
     
  15. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

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    It must be an homage to the vintage cars rather than anything similar to a heritage reproduction. I would imagine that the torque of the 812 motor alone would probably twist anything resembling an original 750 Monza chassis into a pretzel :). When you drive a vintage car, it doesn't really pop into your head that "what this thing could use is an 800hp 812 motor" -- a vintage car's chassis and brakes are usually about up to about the same performance limits as the engine that came with the original car.

    I hope they don't make lookalikes, that just seems silly. The way to do an homage is what Jim did with P4/5, IMO. Thoroughly modern but with hints of the past infused into it.
     
  16. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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    I'm smiling at the typo (I guess) in Barry K's post.
     
  17. maximilien

    maximilien Formula Junior

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    I’m very curious
     
  18. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

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    Agree. I only used it as this forum is called, well, Vintage! I guess the cars from the first 20 years probably covers it :)
     
  19. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

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    I don't think there is any singular agreed upon definition of "vintage" as it relates to cars or any other generalized category. In the context of Ferraris, they started building cars in the late 40's, and there was a clear delineation in history with the transition to mid-engine cars in the 70's, so even though it's pointless to argue semantics, I would suggest that "vintage" couldn't be more a appropriate label for the "front-engine V-12 era" cars. For cars in general, probably a term like "Pre-war" is more meaningful than a generic term like "vintage".
     
  20. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    "Vintage" never seems the right word to describe any Ferrari to me as it just conjures up an image of a slow old car that you may find on the Brighton Run. "Classic" or "Golden Era" are better words, imo.
     
  21. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

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    I am still having trouble visualizing a 750 Monza/500 Mondial look-alike w/ an 812 powerplant. The 50's sportracers were very small cars - the wheelbase of a Monza is nearly 6" shorter than that of a 60's VW Beetle. I have no idea how you could possibly shoehorn the 812 motor into the tiny bay of a Monza. If you scale-up the car, then you've missed the point entirely (I think this whole exercise misses the point, especially if you've ever driven a Lampredi 4, but whatever). And the instant torque of an 812 would shred a 50's Borrani the first tap on the pedal . . . . so what do the wheels on this thing look like?
     
  22. TerryG!

    TerryG! Karting

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    Sorry, can't resist a pedantic comment...

    Brighton Run vehicles are Veteran.

    Agree though that Vintage and Ferrari have never sounded quite right together.
     
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  23. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

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    Me too which leads me to think these are more like the Clapton Boxer homage than a faithful recreation of the original style.
     
  24. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Vintage to me means NA, stick no ps. Ferrari could build some new airbagged crash prtected car with those vintage virtues for thsoe of us who still like to drive.

    As for recreations, you dont need ferrari to build them, there are plenty about. Plus are some of the classiche "restorations" not really recreations.
     
  25. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

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    Neither argument is right or wrong. I guess when talking about cars in general, Ferrari probably doesn't count as vintage in many people's minds. But within the discussion of Ferraris, there is a clear delineation of what is vintage to me. I say that based upon driving feel more than any other arbitrary factor. If you drive a 166 Ferrari road car, which I haven't, I'm certain it will feel old and slow and very "mortal". It's a V12, but you can only do so much with 1992 cc's. Even the 330 V12, at 244 cubic inches, is smaller than the smallest V8 Detroit ever made. My brother has a 260 Sunbeam Tiger and it still blows my mind that the 330 engine is smaller than that (the 330 is a lot faster though). The 330 is not vintage in a straight line, but it is vintage in steering feel, braking, suspension, etc. The older cars' driving feel is pretty vintage in all regards.

    The early mid-engine cars are very different. I just drove a friend of mine's 488 and, as nice as it was, I have a lot more fun driving a 328 which has the exact same spirit as the modern cars (actually more spirit IMO) but at lower performance levels. The mid-engine cars couldn't fit more in the category of "classic" to me. The difference in driving between the Enzo era cars and the mid-engines is huge -- neither definitively better or worse, but very different. I can't find a way to lump those two very different experiences into the same "classic" category when the topic is Ferraris.
     

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