Ferrari from 2009 to 2016 why did they recess so much?

The 2006-2008 Campaigns were the last campaigns that showed that Ferrari can make cars that petty much were feared by other teams. (Until the recent last year with the SF70h clearly capable of getting both titles if it didn't suffer from mistakes and bad luck). I don't count the Michael Schumacher years of the early 2000s as it was well known that those cars were kings of the field easily and had sheer dominate like nothing else. In addition with the best driver driving for them. I clearly don't count the near Alonso winning titles of 2010 and 2012 cause while the car was capable of WDC it just wasn't enough for the WCC win which is more important to how capable the car is. Cause that shows that it's the best.

What I want to ask I'd how did they recess so much from their winning ways beyond 2008 in a more detailed way.

 

Happy to answer:

From 1996 to 2007 Ferrari was either World Champion Drivers or Constructors top 3. this was a combination of the following:

1. Strong Management leadership from Luca Di Monetzemolo & Jean Todt. they preserved the team from the Italian Media
2. Very strong driver line up - Michael Schumacher Eddie Ervine, Rubens Barrichello, and Filepe Massa. Schumacher being the best in the world.
3. Strongest Designers - Rory Byrne, Ross Brawn, Stefano Domenicalli and the full engine development team at Ferrari Corse
4. Strong backing from Parent FIAT - Gianni Angelli kept the corp people away from Montezemolo
5. rules were not as strict as today. open for a lot of interpretation
6. Open testing - Schumacher would literally pound around Foriano and Mugello for days testing the cars.

starting with Schumachers retirement, then the loss of Jean Todt, and one by one each of the key players fell by the way side. the team slid slowly down the grid. that coupled with rules changes - V-10 - V8 then Turbo V-6 nad aero restrictions and ban on in season free testing.

So today that is why Ferrari have lagged ... not to mention the corporate shake up = Monetzemolo leaving, Piero beign pushed out and given huge golden parachute with the stock flotation... and Marchionne coming back in. and the constant press scrutiny.

 

No testing. Limitations on engine development. F1 became a design competition,... with little ability to improve. F1 sucks because a team is forbidden by the rule to work harder than an opponent to win.

Olympians should only be allowed to practice 8 days a year... figure skaters should be limited to 1 pair of laces per season... lets see how that turns out.

 

Shouldn't 2008 be included since that is the last time they won the WCC and was ever close to the WDC title if it wasn't for garbage luck. All of which I agree with on all points.

 

The difference between the two is that f1 they play in companies and smaller companies. With the Olympics you dealing with entire nations and countries. Nations like America can afford a ton, have huge world influence, and the Olympics have to deal with other national governments. F1 has to only deal with companies like Mercedes and Ferrari. While they are massive they are ants compared to a Governments like the USA. F1 ALSO has to deal with smaller businesses they cannot afford to pay as high as the big teams there hence rule changes such as ban chnages and aero bans are to reduce costs for them to equalize the competition. The Olympics don't need to as entire nations pay out alot to be the best as it is a global competition after all restricting training as long as it is not endangering seems contricting if you trying to prove your nation is the best.

 

at the simple level, here's who got the new regulations right:

-V8, Red Bull and Adrian Newey
-V6, Mercedes

 

yep - hit the wrong button...

 

Actually at the start Ferrari were the best at first in 2006; If Renault didn't have that trick suspension, Ferrari would likely take the WCC title and Schumacher would of claimed the WDC. Up until 2008 Ferrari were still the dominate team by far just not dominate as in the early 2000 years just still a force to be reckon with. Also I meant upto the end of 2008 they where the best. It's only in 2009 with the brand new regs that we see Ferrari decline and that's when we see Newey starting to dominate that era.

 

2014 - 2017 (the hybrid era) Mercedes dominance

So you know Ferrari had and still has a "coporate culture problem" within the F1 dept. This hybrid era formula is altogether a totally different beast which seemed to have played into the hands of Mercedes.

1.) Mercedes had a jump(2 to 3yrs) on this hybrid formula before the talks of these new engines which was 2012 into 2013 for 2014. KERS or ERS-K(2009) was not as complicated and did well with the teams....some used it others did not. All manufacturers debated on what platform of ICE to use, all wanted an I-4 platform but Ferrari(even though Ferrari's history in F1 of making I-4's) was NOT having it so all agreed to the V-6 platform. It's the MGU-H (motor generating unit - heat (turbo)) that is the most complicated part of this hybrid formula (2014 - current).

2. 2014 - Mercedes comes out of the gates with this hybrid formula and a 100hp advantage above everyone else....which in F1 is monumental. They dominate 2014, 2015, and 2016 with an 82%, 86%, and 85% of pts. for said yr.

3. The Token system (2014 - 2016 ended 2017) - which was supposed to reduced costs in engine developement and put a "freeze" on engine development. Well this definitely favoured Mercedes since they had a jump on this to begin with. Renault and Ferrari were tied with their hands to their backs and knew Mercedes would be dominant. The token system was eventually thrown out ending 2016 into 2017.

4. 2017 - Reliabilty(4 component allocation allotment) - Mercedes won(Mexico) with 2 GP's to go but it was not like the dominance of 2014 - 2016 years with 4 or 5 GP's to go thereby Ferrari closing the gap...somewhat. Oil burning speculation amongst Mercedes and Ferrari for "boosting" purposes....Ferrari gets caught(Allison) but suspicions within the Paddock in Mercedes camp.

5. 2018 - Reliability (3 component allocation allotment) and Spec engines for Works and Customer teams (same engines same software) and tighter restrictions on oil burning. If there was ever a year in this hybrid formula, this looks to be the year of an exciting fight amongst the teams....most notably Ferrari and Mercedes for the WCC and WDC titles. It will come down to the drivers of said teams and maybe, just maybe the 3 engine rule.....can't wait for it to start.

that's my 2 cents.

 

I think you're right, the 3 engine rule could make the difference just based on reliability.

 

at the simple level, here's who got the new regulations right:

-V8, Red Bull and Adrian Newey
-V6, Mercedes

The v8 era should be splinted more simply cause Newey didn't dominate during a period of time. 2006 at the start of the v8 era Ferrari dominated and Renualt also. From then on until the end of 2008 Ferrari were petty much were still the best team by far. The new for 2009 brand new regs petty much ended that domination. That's when we start to see Newey start to dominate with Red Bull with the brand new regs from then on until the hybrid era.

So it's more like 2006-2008 domination Ferrari.
2009-2013 is when Newey started to show his truly amazing skills in aero knowledge and begun to dominate.

 

Newey has always been brilliant, not just 09-13. Ferrari just got it 'more' right in the early 00s due to a number of things. Newey only really had a free hand when he got to Red Bull.

 

Don't forget having Bridgestone making custom tires for just your car was very helpful.

 

The last 2 WCCs and that one WDC they had was when the whole field ran bridgestone. So I don't think your qoute counts there.

 

He is brilliant doesn't mean the man wasn't always the best I mean the current regs hybirds highlighted his aero could be beaten. The early 00s showed that Newey could only do so much also and 1994-1995 Roye Byne with Schumacher. I agree he is brilliant doesn't mean he is not unbeatable in his department. He is definitely the no.1 most wanted man if you want to do aerodynamics ofcourse.

 

It's still an advantage to run Bridgestones when that company has been working closely with your team while other teams had to switch manufacturers and figure out how to make their car and suspension work best with a new type of tire. Plus, the fact Ferrari didn't dominate and won a WCC without a WDC one of those seasons makes me think the tire dominance they had in the early 2000s was an even bigger advantage in hindsight.

 

Short answer: life goes in cycles. People come and go, rules change, FIA political interests change... so from time to time it´s a reset and start from zero.

 

2007 involved one of the biggest scandals in F1 history with Mclaren though with settings and details of the Ferrari being key part. So it's unknown how much a gain did Mclaren actually do themselves and anyway both Ferrari drivers seemed to have horrible bad luck that season to be close in the final season. And so is 2008 with Massa garbage luck throwing the wdc out the window. Honestly I think 2008 was more so a dommination for a Ferrari if wasn't for the fact that they were plagued with bad luck they would of easily won the WDC by 1 race combined with WCC win domination of Ferrari again. Both years had Ferrari at the top.