My 488 is just too damn fast.. | Page 9 | FerrariChat

My 488 is just too damn fast..

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by SlickMurphy, Feb 2, 2018.

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  1. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 18, 2014
    3,778
    Europe, but not by much.
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    Nuno
    Shamile,

    I respect your opinion, and agree to an extent if you're talking about the supercar/hypercar world of today in general.

    With regards to the 458, you either didn't drive it at all or drove a different one than mine, and different from every 458 I've ever had the privilege of being seated behind the wheel. Labelling the 458 (or any modern Ferrari) as boring, is like saying the 488 lacks torque. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, that's why we have a debate forum, but I must admit I am a bit puzzled by the way you access cars and what gets you going.

    Paddle shifters can be boring... On cars that are already boring to begin with. Lots has been said about the 458, but I've never seen anyone complain about it being a boring driving experience, quite the opposite. The 458's DCT gearbox is in a class of its own, it has elevated double-clutch transmission to an art form and I'm not even sure a manual gearbox would add that much more to the driving experience. That's how alive and electric the 458 driving experience is for me. Even Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, notorious for hating paddle shifters, called the 458 "sensational", "one of the all time greats", and "didn't even care if the car ate one of his legs". The 458 is a car that debunked and overcame lots of pre-conceived ideas that one might have had, until you turned the key and drove the first couple of miles.

    I wouldn't say older cars are better or worse than newer cars. You have to enjoy them in different ways and they're rewarding in different ways. You just can't ask of an older car to provide you the same set of emotions of a newer car, and vice-versa. You can't ask them to be something they're not: in case of old cars, you can't ask them to be refined and evolved, nor keep up with present notion of what "fast" is. In the case of newer cars, you can't demand they come without electronic evolution and that you still have to do and feel everything with your toes and fingertips.

    As I said before, evolution is not the arch-enemy of emotion. Technology (not in general, talking specifically about Ferrari) helps you get new emotions, more emotions, not less. Just don't take my naturally aspirated, petrol burning engine away from me! :D

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
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  2. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    Very well written post.

    I would never say an old Ferrari or old Lamborghini is better in any single way than the newer cars. I just go by the feel and enjoyment. My first impression of the 458 was at first glance, I didn't like the interior....no round vents and the shape of the dash was off and jarring. It didn't have a sense of symmetrical balance for me. Driving it felt smooth, made me feel I had more skills than I deserve but honestly left me lacking. Granted, I'm already bias against the 458 as I'm not a fan of curvy shapes.
    But....I absolutely love the Lamborghini Aventador...it's shape, style and driving position. So, as much as I wanted to love the car and proclaim victory, I honestly came away disappointed on the lack of visceral feel....at legal speeds. It's just so soft and the shifts are electronically engineered to give a kick...that's not really there.

    Most of my posts on this thread are " tongue in cheek " as you really can't quantify a preference. It just funny that after always longing for something newer, better, faster and now in the position of being able to buy it, I find I don't like what I'm being offered. I can buy a 458 spyder tomorrow but I shrug my shoulders at it.
    It's really like trying to justify my musical taste over anothers....really can't do it. So, please take my postings as they're meant....just the emotional feel of the car...not it's performance.

    I just find it funny that after moving forward to the near latest, I find myself enjoying the whine of the gearbox, the skill it takes to feel the shift timing...especially in the Testarossa (that car shows no mercy ) and the fact I can red line the first couple of gears without getting into legal trouble. Hey, I love my newest galaxy S8 phones, my new f250's but I just want a different experience in an exotic.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice !

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  3. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
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    Oh, forgot to mention, if I could buy any car cost no object....It would be a Ferrari F50.
    ....and that's quite an "old" car for a daily driver ;)


    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice!

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  4. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    Hard to argue over subjective parameters, such as aesthetic preferences or driver excitement. If one finds a specific model boring to drive, for example, it is futile to attempt to convince him otherwise.Similiarly, one man's driving thrills is another man's boredom. Debates over manual transmissions compared to DCT adheres to the same principle. Manual guys will rarely prefer a DCT no matter how fast and seamless the shifts are simply due to the fact that it minimizes driver involvement.
     
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  5. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    Of course there is input with a paddle shifter (you decide when to change gear, which affects all dynamic aspects of the vehicle - power delivery, weight balance, yaw rate, etc) and then you can get on with the actual driving (picking your lines, corner speeds, braking points etc). At any rate, any gearbox is a device that merely solves a problem; the narrow power band of an ICE. The fact that some people revere a mechanism that is meant to ameliorate a flaw, cracks me up. I guess you also prefer a manual crank starter and manual engine advance settings. I believe there are some Model Ts for sale... :D
     
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  6. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
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    Coinsid said it best.

    ...but this sure got my blood pumping at the Urus unveiling last night!

    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice! Image Unavailable, Please Login

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  7. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    It minimises the driver's load and fatigue. Leaves more mental capacity for actual quick driving. The gearbox wouldn't even exist if the ICEs didn't have a power band issue.
     
  8. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
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    I'm honestly having a little chuckle to myself as I can see this same argument in ten years. "Why do you want that noisy toxic gasoline engine. My electronic motors are faster, seamless..don't even need a gearbox..
    ...and a paddle shift...what the heck is that? I stomp on the pedal, I go, I lift off, the regenerative braking takes over and my concentration for the perfect apex is never broken. But I guess some people like clunky old things like a dct....pull a paddle...really now.

    The oldest Ferrari I have ever driven was a 82 512 bb and while archaic in every respect, it sure was fun to drive.

    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice!


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  9. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
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    Why stop there?
    Steering wheel wouldn't exist if self-driving cars had been developed earlier. As for brakes, well, that's just a limitation of the laws of physics.

    For you sir, a Google self-drive car is waiting for you at the end of the rainbow. Or semi-autonomous Rimac Concept Two if you want to go a bit faster....:D
     
  10. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,861
    You have that exactly right, the older cars are very special and have an appeal all their own.

    My response to this is why do people still buy analog mechanical watches. Some of which are more costly than a new Ferrari, some more costly than several new Ferraris?! After all a digital watch is more accurate, requires no servicing aside from maybe recharging or replacing a battery, and often times now more durable.

    My answer is there is still an artistry to mechanical watches, as there is to an engine built by a real master, such as Ferrari. And that artistry appeals to the romantic side of those prone to such things. And we can put a value on this. Yes, I know watches don't pollute, but no analogy is perfect. We may one day all be driven around in autonomous electronic pods (I hope not, but it might happen), but I will still enjoy my Ferraris for what they are.

    Anyway times change, so far Ferrari has found ways to remain relevant, and I would expect they will in the future.
     
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  11. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
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    Yesssss!

    ...and this is why I wear a Rolex President, when my smartphone in just in my pocket a second away.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

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  12. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    It would actually destroy the car. It would be like a machine gun that doesn't auto load the next round. LOL!
     
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  13. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    I am sorry, but you are talking nonsense, sir. I never said anything about a self steering car. The actual art of driving quickly is about accelerating, braking and turning as best as possible.
     
  14. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    Watches are just jewels for men.
     
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  15. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
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    On the contrary, I am merely taking your reductionist logic to its natural conclusion.
     
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  16. buddyg

    buddyg F1 Veteran
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    Sep 20, 2004
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    This argument has a lot to do with where you live I guess. I daily drive a Dodge Challenger Demon with 808 hp (840 hp on 100 Octane) and I have many opportunities to run it up to 150-170 on an empty freeway. Even empty 4 lane roads right by my house. (Obviously time of day dependent)

    Never too much power in my opionion.
     
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  17. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    True, but once you get past basic functionality, just about everything is jewelry. Most people enjoy such things.
     
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  18. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    I know, even though I am in the minority. I have fast cars because I love the experience. I have cheap watches because they all just tell the time. ;)
     
  19. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 18, 2014
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    Nuno
    Very well written and nice post, Shamile. I can particularly relate to that bit you've wrote. Your post just goes to show it is sometimes nicer to disagree with a gentleman such as yourself, than to agree with some people.

    Kind regards and thanks,

    Nuno.
     
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  20. bcorner

    bcorner Karting

    Aug 25, 2017
    63
    I believe I see the tail end of an AF4C in that pic!


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  21. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
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    Noooo.....you see a 99 Lamborghini Diablo VT!

    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice!

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  22. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
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    Mar 22, 2013
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    This is an interesting thread. I would love to have a 308 GTB for the feel, nostalgia and beauty. Somehow in college, I managed to BS my way into a test drive. Wow, what an impressive vehicle! I have a resto-mod Powerwagon with a Cummins 4 cylinder and 5 speed manual for fun drives. Absolutely love that analog experience and so simple I can work on it. Doesn’t compare to the new F250 in any measure but is still delightful to drive!

    Still, I drive the 488 almost every day and it too is great fun for me.

    Shamille, I hope you totally enjoy that Aventador. After all, that is what these vehicles are all about!

    John


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  23. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
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    There is no comparison between a high performance car and an expensive watch. The function of the latter in its truest sense , is to tell time. A Rolex does not even fulfill that function as accurately as a $30 digital watch. A super car's purpose is not simply to move its occupant from point A to B. It is a rolling piece of automotive art that serves multiple functions with transportation simply being one of them. An expensive watch serves a singular purpose- it indicates to others that the wearer spent an inordinate sum of money on a piece of jewelry to alert others of his/her ascent to prestige and elevated economic status. While it is undeniable that some super car owners purchased their cars for a similar purpose, the vast majority love state of the art cars for the pleasure derived from driving them.
     
  24. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
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    I wrongly attribute the quote to you...it was cae...11 that said it best.

    You don't get it.


    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

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  25. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
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    You are right. I don't. Just as I don't get Hermes bags.
     
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