Why not a Mooney Acclaim Ultra?

Mooneys are flush riveted, aren't they?

 

Airbus is pretty much all sidestick, except for some of the very earliest airplanes (I think).

 

To my recollection, yes. Where it matters, but not 100%.

Edit: found a couple of photos that match my recollection of my 231, although these are earlier models. The leading 60-70% of the wing is flush riveted. I also recall flush riveting on the cowl and forward portion of the cabin.

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Could you compare a Mooney Acclaim vs say a Bonanza ? Anything else in this category ? How about a Piper Arrow ?

MDS

 

From photos that I have seen, they aren't flush riveted and wouldn't have to be, except for looks. Flush riveting is expensive and more labor intensive and, from what I remember from years past, it doesn't effect performance until you're over 300mph. On light structure you have to dimple the inner structure and dimple the skin to match. Then you drive the rivet. AND if you haven't got it right, you have to micro shave the rivet head to get it flush. It only profits faster airplanes but "it looks nice" on the slower vehicles. This is where the plastic structures come in with their smooth surfaces. Lower speed metal structures are prone to protruding universal head rivets, skin wrinkles, and either skin laps or butt joints. Better things are on the way and that's a good thing because we have run out of the younger people who know how to work with tools.

 

Here's a fun article with a lot of info relevant to this discussion: 2017 Single Engine Piston Buyer's Guide.

https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/single-engine-piston-planes/#.WsTjpX9Jncs

 

A couple of comments on your comments...

Piper's twins are mostly sold to training programs. You have to get a multiengine rating (and ATP) somehow before getting into that airline cockpit, and that's how you do it. I'm sure they sell a few to individual buyers, but that's not who their market is. There are places in the world where you want a second engine, though, and I think that's their other market.

I don't know who buys a new Baron these days, though.

King Air-- if you want to carry 8-10 people into a small airport, it's by far the best option. In some cases the only option. And a lot of people need that capability.

I'm pretty sure Cessna dropped the original Mustang and is just making the M2 now. M2 is definitely single pilot. They also dropped the CJ2, by the way.

 

The G36 has 6 seats. I know about the useful load but iirc there are aftermarket mods to raise that.

 

The issue with the Bo's, and IIRC especially the 36's, is CG. Very easy to depart well within cg and halfway through the flight you are out. Much worse on the 36's vs Debonairs. The cg shift due to fuel burn on my old E model Mooney was negligible, not sure about the long body models.

 

I've heard that. What about with tip tanks?

 

On an A36TC the tip tank fuel is very near the aft cg limit. The main tanks are in the wing LE, which is the problem since as the fuel is used the cg will shift aft. So the tip tanks allow you to transfer wt fwd as the flight progresses. So on the face of it appears tip tanks can be useful in managing cg shift.

 

Seems like that delays the cg shift... but it will still happen.
So, to avoid it, you need to carry around fuel that you won't (can't) use?

 

Appears so, or have anyone lean fwd.

On the short body Mooney's you could change pitch fairly easily by leaning fwd and back.

 

Reminds me of flying an empty Salair DC-3 for the first time and had trouble keeping it trimmed in pitch. The nose went up two times every time I got it trimmed. My friend in the left seat asked if I had to use more trim the first time it went out and I told him yes but not so much the second time. " Well, the first time it was Jerry ( flight attendant) going back to the lav, the second time it was Tracy, she's smaller than Jerry."

 

I do it in the PC12 all the time. You don't see any KA's in St. Barth.

 

Welcome back! You carry 10 passengers in your PC-12?

 

My Pilatus has seats for 11. I leave 3 out usually to make it more "executive style" but sometimes I put them in when I need them. The cabin space of the Pilatus is the same cubic feet as the cabin of the KA350.

Tradewinds runs only PC12's in and out of St. Barth. Full fuel, full PAX, 2000' runway. I had to do it when I did my training there.
https://www.flytradewind.com

 

Cool article - as I said before, I'm not into aviation, but fun to learn.

The Piper Saratoga ? Where does that fit in? It's been replaced / discontinued ?

MDS