You quote you are "sure no Mac owner is cheated" and there is "no secret of unstable depreciation"? Consistent is a Mac owners story of wealth with no care of depreciation other than to achieve a set goal of enjoyment however, when the car is sold the story of fun and pleasure takes an about face and a river of truth and pain begins to flow. Is it wrong to question this behavior? Equally intriguing is the holding of these cars for such short periods - obviously to avoid the said depreciation which is not allegedly not cared about. I mean if the car was so great why sell it?
You keep giving your experience in Austarlia which is such a small market for exotic cars. Do you notice how very little people in the States actually talk about depreciation, especially the ones who have been buying cars for a while? Every person who says they didn't lose any money or little money on a car is generally in the used market space and they got a good deal because the original owner took a bullet or if the second buyer went above MSRP then he/she took a really large bullet. I gave some real concrete examples above of my own experience...
Trust me when you are losing in the $100k's its very different to when losing in the $10k's. The problem is amplified. Australia might be a small market (2% of the world market in general) but its car mad and punches way above its weight. The US seems to pay the lowest cost for exotics - at the prices u mention I would not care either
That's fine - and thanks for the info covering your vehicle ownership. However, I am confused why the need to single out 3 Australians (who have cited the problem as being legitimate) when the Mac depreciation issue has been clearly reported on a global scale? It's as if you are trying to use the case of "the 3 Aussies" as a means to dismiss the issue as being illegitimate - by suggesting it's isolated to Australia alone when we all know that is not the case. I also noted that you feel Ferrari and Porsche ownership somehow indicates an isolated viewpoint on the matter regarding depreciation and Mac ownership in general - not sure what you are trying to say there as I see you also own a Porsche and, have opted to retain it, whereas your various Macs have seemingly been unloaded in a manner indicating a need to get out whilst you can retain your trousers. Hence my point about how Macs are generally owned only for very brief periods (your own ownership indicting this as well) due to this legitimate depreciation issue amongst other reported issues associated with reliability and impending expiration of warranties. Surely if there was no need to avoid depreciation, and the ownership experience was so wonderful as some here claim, there would be no need to shed these cars so quickly? Logically, ownership is lengthy when a car is truly enjoyed and treasured and, the cost of retention is viable and, afforded due to the position of one's wealth.
It has lost another £15k or so, which is pretty good in two years, but just slightly better than similar age FF that I put more mileage on. It was one or the other and Speciale plus FF seemed better than Speciale plus Mac. When the Speciale arrived I didn’t pick up the keys of the Mac anymore. I suppose it emphasises my earlier point - if you see value in something, spending extra for it is good value. No doubt some would think swapping a Mac for an FF is crazy, but I used the FF more so it made sense to me.
Interesting post and I can more easily see your viewpoint. That’s pretty heavy stuff for all brands. Given the costs of holding many of the cars you have had, doesn’t $75k on a Lusso seem cheap to get a Pista? If this is an accurate reflection of the US market as a whole, it seems the track-special cars do well, the others don’t. I presume you will certainly buy a 750LT given your experience with the 675. How about a Senna?
It is definitely not wrong to question this behavior. I guess it is clear, everyone looks at this topic differently, everyone has different priorities. But one is for sure, so many Mac owners do NOT sell their cars after such a short period as claimed, just with the 650S a loyal ownership has established itself (we must not be blinded by the very fast model change of the 12C, which was not a good start for McLaren in the super car scene). For example, I'm someone who keeps (normally) his toys for a long time. I can imagine keeping the McLaren forever, I do not have another plan yet, I will see and time will tell. The same with the Scuderia btw (two other Ferraris I've sold again, because they have become boring to me). So, that's why depreciation does not interest me at all. I buy these products out of pure pleasure and fun. And when I talk to my colleagues, I'm not the only one who works that way. Many exotics are bought and then disappear forever (or for a longer time) from the market, also McLaren's. Actually pure logic, otherwise the used-car market would have to be much bigger. Then I also know people who buy from the same model several cars in a row, buy, trade, buy, trade... In my eyes they have not such a close relationship to their cars, that almost comes close to a rental model, a "consumption based" model. They work differently and that's absolutely fine. Of course, in this case "numbers" play a more important role to flip as "efficient" as possible between these purchases. But this game has also started with McLaren. Why are there so many "first generation" 720S on the market? Definitely not because this car is a bad product. Look how many 458 and 488 are in the market! By the way, with quite a high drop in value... Everything will adjust very quickly, the differences between Mac and Ferrari are getting smaller and smaller very fast, too attractive are the products from both brands.
Why compare a controversial looking mid small engine turbo V8 that's barely a year old to the classically beautiful front-mid NA V12 F12 that came out in 2012? They don't compare on any level IMO and the Mac is certain to drop leagues more over the next five years compared to it.
You took the words right out of my mouth - I was going to mention this on my reply to exoticcardreamer but was reluctant to dilute my main point by adding that into the equation. But going back to your point, it is a very valid one indeed! A Pista would most likely not result in any need to flip the car in the same way which has evidently been going on with his Macs - clearly due to a degree of uncertainty with resale values and the likely dissatisfaction in areas already widely commented on (i.e benign feel - fast but lacking soul etc). So yes I would foresee a Pista move for him as a problem solver in cancelling out numerous cars in his garage in one almighty swoop. And, with out any need for future worry about the holding cost too!
Nadeems posts in this thread are excellent as usual. Such a buying history and willing to share it in detail. Facts don’t care about feelings. Anytime you buy an exotic be prepared to lose money aka quit worrying about it. If you happen to not lose money, great. But how can one enjoy something if they are constantly worried about depreciation? If you are, like I said before, get a new hobby...
Now that I have been educated to discover that depreciation is the single most important factor in purchasing a super car, I will no longer waste my time test driving models of interest, researching features, reading professional reviews etc. I have contacted my financial advisor and accountant to develop a spread sheet on the depreciation rates of all the contenders and then scientifically purchase the car that best retains its original value. I will subsequently sell the car on the date that optimizes its return value. Pity those that inject irrelevant subjective factors like emotion, excitement and thrills into the car buying and ownership equation.
Besides the ego blow (ie., buying one to get another) there is real logistical issues. Garage space, insurance, registration, etc. I've just come to the realization that less is more. Less cars but higher quality (ie., one hypercar vs say five super cars). It is difficult to do this because to get the hyper car then you have to go the five super cars and above to get one from new. Of all the conversations that I've had with many of my friends who own these cars, the one that made a mark on me and made a lot of sense was; don't buy a car to get a car...if you really want it then wait on the secondary market and go over MSRP if you really want it. Economically it'll work out better and you'll also get the car faster.
Yes, I should be in line to get the 750 LT without any issue. Senna is incoming probably around September of this year.
I compared to the entire line up I should have also referenced the Cali which drops like a rock as well. The Lusso 12s are already 50k down. Looks-wise the 488 is beautiful but does nothing for me which is why I went with the 720. IMO head and shoulders above the 488. Pista is way more interesting so I did what I said I wouldn't and ordered one. Just finalized my spec today on the Lusso T. What else would you like to know?
Principal has something to do with it for many. I am sure you can appreciate this. I have never ordered a new Ferrari nor did I think I would even have a shot at a Pista so I took it up the ying yang on this one. Others have way more tenure than I with Ferrari and still have to deal with their BS. They got me at the right time. Crazy right? McLaren troll buys Lusso to get Pista. How can this make sense? I can appreciate these cars for what they are and not blinded by a single badge like most posting. I did just trade my FF on a RR to balance it out.
HEAVY depreciation isn’t just random. It comes at more than just loss of money. It is driven by a car’s rep for sucking. Must factor in the constant inconvenience, aggravation, loss of utility, towing, getting stranded, waiting for parts, inferior loaners, or the answer to the grand question of WTF is wrong with my car (again!)? Hence, HEAVY depreciation. A certain otherwise awesome car comes to mind. Poor ownership experience and good riddance when it’s gone.
+1 Decided not to play the dealer games and lose $200k on a **** spec 70 anniversary Cali. Pista can be had at $200k over if wanted.
I believe you meant to say "Ferrari troll" but who's counting? Criticizing a brand/car while providing solid points shouldn't qualify as "troll" language. I'm confident many others here would confirm the same about you as well. Congrats on the upcoming car!
I asked why compare a new car's ability to hold value to a five year old car especially when they are incomparable in all attributes. I don't believe you addressed the question at all. The F12 was reselling > $50K over MSRP when it was the same age as the 720. Additionally, orders were still being taken for the F12 long after the F12M was coming out - something quite rare these days even for a Ferrari and I think non existent for a Mac. No comparison between the two cars IMO. I have no interest in small engine turbos so no bone to pick here just pointing out the bad logic in that part of your comparison. Best.
Exactly, why lose $70K on a car you don't want? Leave that up to the trust fund kids that don't know the value of a dollar and can't manage money. Doesn't take long for a dealer to sniff them out, especially those with sufficient history.
