MCLAREN 720S OR 488

You're happy, that's why it makes sense, congratulation for the Pista!

And if you don't want the 720S anymore because of the Pista, pls give me a call.

 

This used to be a nice thread... Not anymore!

 

My point is clear, they all depreciate so why keep harping on it and singling out a particular brand. Lets move on from this point. The thread is 488 vs 720. Both great cars and have their unique attributes. For me and others the 488 was less impressive than the 720 as a super car others feel differently. Why cant some leave it at that vs bringing in all this other BS? So many childish responses with people trying to make themselves feel better about what they bought.

 

Thank you Daniel.

 

We all think differently but I tend to have a greater emotional attachment to cars that I ‘helped create’. I recently bought a 991 RS in the secondary market. The car is epic and has a sound to best all the Ferrari V8s and maybe even the V12s. It really is a beautiful machine. I don’t buy new Porsches so if I wanted a GT3 of some kind I had to swallow the pill (much much harder for me to do that than buy a car that the dealer needs to sell unless I simply had absolutely no use for that car). But I swallowed said pill and paid about 35% over sticker for a 2 year old, 3k mile car and have added another 3k over the winter.

I just traded it against a Lusso I have coming shortly. I had planned to use the RS this summer and instead trade my 488 Spider. In the end, I just couldn’t trade the 488 and keep the RS. I’m not really sure why. I have no idea which car would be more expensive to hold over the next 12 months so depreciation was not a consideration. Good as the RS is, the 488 is still a mid-engined Ferrari and is wonderful to drive and own. And perhaps, the fact that I spec’d It from new was important too - can’t say for sure but I feel it might have had some part in the decision.

To a large extent I buy cars because I want different experiences as well as ownership satisfaction. To try another car from any of these brands seems preferable to paying extra cash to a previous owner because he could get on the list and I couldn’t.

 

Seriously, someone please explain this man’s relevance. Deploying guruesque ninja negotiating tactics, he buys cars (big time depreciators) at unheard of bargain prices (I don’t believe him), loses his ass on depreciation, then goes on to claim the car a POS (“selling, and won’t ever buy again”) and moves onto the next grand depreciator (NSX) so he can make another hate rant vid....add, rinse repeat. And, he thinks he’s dispensing invaluable insider advice to the ostensibly clueless supercar buying masses?

Did I get this right?

 

Why pay any attention to him.As most things on the internet, not worth the time to listen. I have yet to find a reputable car dealer who will sell a desirable, well maintained, accident free, low mileage car that is going for between $189K- $220K for $149K.

 

You absolutely know full well why you couldn't trade your 488 - Simple. Due to your intense emotional attachment to all things Ferrari

 

Not quite true. I do love Ferrari road cars, but I love Porsche too - especially 911. I make money from other brands for a living and I especially love those! And I never seem to be in a position to support Ferrari’s F1 team. (Last time in 1990 with Nigel Mansell - Il Leone). Having just watched the Bahrain GP, I’m very sure I don’t want Vettel to win this year’s WC. Lewis for me but I would also be somewhat happy with Kimi. My first nice car was a 911, my first brand new ‘expensive’ car was an Aston, my first new supercar was a McLaren. I sort of happened upon Ferrari almost by accident, having previously bought what I thought I wanted - I’m a Brit after all. I discovered Ferrari just does it for me where roadcars are concerned, and that has led me to grow to love the brand more than the others.

 

I cross-shopped the Ferrari 488, McLaren 720s, and Lamborghini Huracan over the last few weeks. Here's my thoughts and the outcome:

My search was for a car that I could use semi-daily so the ride/ergonomics were quite important, but something that also provided a high level of fun when an open road presented itself. As a bit of background I've owned well over a dozen Ferraris and a couple of Lamborghinis over the years, but no McLarens. I've always had a special spot in my heart for Ferrari and still have two today, but I've got to admit I have been a bit disenchanted with them as of late. My current ones are older (76 308GTB and 01 360 Spider) and I do expect issues with age from time to time, but it's still frustrating. Even our recent Cali and 430 Scud were pushing my buttons (batteries, stickies, trans/clutch) when we ultimately decided to get rid of both - but I cant swear them off. The first step is admitting you have a problem, and I do! On the Lambo front, I've always loved the designs and they are brutes. Both of my cars were pre-VW so I don't have much experience with the modern ones. I have never owned a McLaren. I was intrigued by the 12c and 650/675lt, but the age of the company was a concern for me along with the fact that I'm not an early adopter when it comes to pricy sports cars.

Ferrari: I drove a 2018 GTB and found it to be a good contender. First, it's beautiful. I really do love the looks of this car more than the other three - no doubt about it. Fit and finish was also much better than their cars only 5 years ago, although I still have interior concerns with the longer term stickies and leather fit on dash and shelves considering my 2014 Cali. I did notice gaps in the carpet along a couple of panels but that could have been due to some sort of service/get ready work. I found the base seats somewhat uncomfortable. True they make different seats, but it's been awhile since I sat in one that I thought was great (550 with sport seats comes to mind - those were sublime). I also still don't like the dash or all the crap on the steering wheel. On the driving side I found the car much more enjoyable to drive on the highway then on surface streets. It's definitely powerful and tight, but it's more rigid than I was looking for in terms of a car I could live with every day and there wasn't any settings that got it to compliant. Visibility was reasonable although I had to use the mirrors more than I'd like to. The sound was uninspired and it definitely needs an aftermarket system to sound like what *I think* a Ferrari should sound like (ie, Scud with a Capristo) which really doesn't bother me since I seem to add exhaust to everything I buy anyhow.

Lamborghini: I drove a 2017 Huracan. While I do like the way the front of the car looks, I can't stand most of the other angles - particularly the rear end. The proportions just look "off" to me, as if they squished a (beautiful) Aventador onto some other chassis. Fit and finish were very good inside and out and a lot of the Audi influence showed through. Visibility is very poor, as expected. The sound and performance was good, although the latter was not as good as the Ferrari seemed to be. I drove the all wheel drive version and attribute the difference to that in terms of handling, but it sure helped off the line. I think the Huracan probably rode nicely too, although it was well hidden because I was miserably uncomfortable in the factory installed judas chair. The seat really made the experience suffer and I couldn't wait to get out of the car. Sad because I think they are probably building a pretty good car in terms of performance/ride/reliability - but I couldn't see it fitting my needs.

McLaren: I drove a 2018 720s last. Having never driven a McLaren in the past, I was interested in seeing how accurate the reviews would reflect my impressions of the car. Having a few models under their belt definitely made me more comfortable with the issues the early cars reportedly had, plus the 720 is said to be over 90% new compared to the 650. Initially I was mixed on the looks when I saw it in photos, but in person I think this car looks wonderfully futuristic and the proportions are great. Fit and finish were very tight. Inside I thought the seats were the most comfortable of the three cars. I had read the power settings were annoying, and they are, but I'm the only one driving the car so it should be set and left there so it was a non-issue to me once I had it set. I did find the infotainment system a bit difficult but I also figured once it was set I wouldn't care. The steering wheel is bare, and I loved it. With the cockpit style canopy the visibility was superior to the other cars I was considering, and probably to most other cars aside from convertibles. My driving impression was the car had the ability to be Jekyll and Hyde. It has three separate settings for both suspension and performance. In comfort the suspension soaked up surface streets with ease, and in sport or track it was much tighter on the twisties. I didn't play with the variable drift control but I could see that really making the car wild to drive. It's also every bit as fast as reviewers claim. From a start it grips much better than I expected it to with that type of HP, but from a roll it was insane. I couldn't help laughing because it's so strong and so linear. The exhaust is pretty quiet in comfort, and even in track it isn't loud. I understand the Fabspeed really changes the tone so I guess there's options there like with the 488. This and the Ferrari were where it's at.

Decision time. I've read a ton on both the 488 and 720. Like most, the newness of the McLaren and the "new" use of turbos in the Ferrari did spook me, but both cars have a 3yr unlimited miles warranty so it wasn't a major concern. I think both cars were equally as likely to be reliable (or not). I'm also keeping this car at my house in Tampa so we have dealers for both Ferrari and McLaren nearby, so both were on even ground here. I also considered the depreciation - probably because of some the threads on this site. Having the money or not, nobody likes loosing a ton on a car. My take is the McLaren depreciation early on was for factors that don't apply to their newest cars. A totally new car, warranty issues that could also be support issues since their dealer network is spread out, flooding the market with EU cars due to regulation changes, rapidly changing from the 12c to 650, etc were all impactful. Long term I think the curve will settle down to "normal" for the segment - and it needs to because they need residuals to stand up so they can sell/lease these cars so I'm confident they'll get it under control. I also have to be honest with myself and look at the depreciation other high end cars take. Ferrari. Rolls. Bentley. Nobody is immune. Heck, look at the cliff dive an AMG Mercedes takes! So, I was comfortable with both cars here too.

Ultimately I chose the McLaren 720s. While a tough choice, I felt it serves my need more in that it's comfortable and calm when I want it to be, but it's also brutally fast and fun to drive. Here's a couple of photos...

 

Seriously AMAZED on the cars you have owed/own. Maybe im a bit one eyed but here I couldn't see anyone doing what you have. At 33% luxury tax and all the other taxes with your list I could have a LA FERRARI for free. Yes its my first real exotic and also Ferrari . Its been in my bucket list since 15 yo. I have followed the market very closely for about 10 years. Lambo's and Mac's just don't hold up. You really need to be aware my 488 without any carbon is basically costing me way over 2 times more than one purchased in the States. I for one would have to make a responsible decision. Don't fancy loosing over $200 in a couple of years . That's crazy

 

Nice write-up! I think you made a good choice, based on your reasoning. Also, you haven’t had a McLaren before and I always like the idea of trying new things. Not sure why you felt the 488 to be ‘stiff’, I think it’s really compliant and ‘bumpy road’ mode is a great feature of the car.

Hope you have plenty of fun in your new 720!

 

I am such a die-hard Ferrari fan, that I actually felt pain in the chest when I read that someone on fchat wants a Mercedes driver to win the title!!! Well, as long as Ferrari wins the Constructors', I may let that slip... LOL!

 

Understood about the situation/cost of exotics in Australia.

If you noticed; no one in the States had anything to say about my posting. This is pretty typical of the ownership/depreciation/purchase history of many people.

I personally know four people who had posted or continue to post on this thread. All very serious drivers and accumulators of exotic cars (You name it, they got it. None of them are dealers or into the lifestyle, they just like cars and specifically exotic cars). One of the posters has over 60 cars which he primarily accumulated over the last 3 years. I get a chuckle because the odd time he will chime in and give his experience and no one will engage with him.

Anyways; if a person who bought a TDF from new through their dealer chimed in here and gave their buying history (purchase price, miles driven, current value or how much they disposed it for) then that would pretty much turn off many of the people who are just starting to get into exotic cars with the goal of buying the regular production cars to get the LE or SE cars.

I'll just give you one example of a good friend of mine (he's not on these forums) and this is his high level purchase history (I can't remember all of his cars but just go give you an idea of his purchase history leading up to his TDF):

3 speciale's (one from new)
Lusso, FF (both new)
2 458's (both new)
Tailor made f12 (new)
2 458 challenge cars (used)
1 488 challenge cars (new) (he's been participating in challenge series for 3 years)
488 coupe (new)
2 x 488 spiders (new)
599 GTO (used)

(he's had a couple of mclarens, couple of lambo's and some porsches all in the same time frame)

Even with the above; he wasn't sure he was going to be able to get the TDF. He eventually did get one. If you add up his losses (significant losses) it still wouldn't even come close to the "paper gain" he has on his TDF.

 

I was too but I would be lying if I didn't say that I am pushing for McLaren to prove many wrong. I should be heading to at least 1 race this year.

 

Can’t think what Alonso must be feeling. Imagine McLaren criticising Honda for most of the last two years quite publicly, claiming their chassis would be a front runner with another engine, then they finally get out of the contract early with a sort of “good-riddance” attitude. And in the second race of the year, a Honda engine in an ‘inferior’ team take 4th place, waaay ahead of both McLarens. And it wasn’t lucky, it was on merit.

It’s a shame but I feel there is a deep-seated issue in the McLaren F1 team. I was always sad that the Williams team, post Hill/Coulthard/Villeneuve fell away to the midfield after being the dominant force for years. I think the same is happening to McLaren.

 

hard to believe someone running in FC couldnt just get a TDF with a phone call, no?

 

Ferrari always makes it seem like you are more borderline than you actually are. This way, customers will be more likely to take delivery instead of cancelling, they will be more likely to hold on to their cars instead of flipping, and they will tell all their friends that it is really, really hard to get a tdf, a Pista, or whatever, and thus elevate the Ferrari brand to mythical status. Think of Ferrari like a pretty girl that all the boys want. Even if she really likes a guy, she will play hard to get. That way, the guy values her more and understands that he can be replaced. In the end all of us boys may think we hate this game but the truth is it makes us happier. If the girl were too easy to catch then we wouldn't appreicate what we've got and (I hate to say it) we wouldn't have as much fun.

 

Joe, nice write up. Thanks. I own a 2017 488 spider, a 2017 huracan spyder and have a 720 coming in July. I too thought the performance of the 720 every bit as thrilling as advertised, but that was a limited test drive. I agree with your assessment of the Lamborghini. While I’ve only test driven the 720, so maybe not a fair comparison, the performance and feeling of engagement with the vehicle is best in the Ferrari.

 

Boy, what a ladykiller. Ever try thinking of Ferraris as cars and women as humans?

 

Epic thread approaching 100 pages.

 

Ever try to think of analogies as figurative and not literal? And in case you are having trouble with reading comprehension, the analogy was to Ferrari the company, not the cars. You know, a company made up of people.

 

Ever try to think of your lame and long-winded stereotyping “analogies” as juvenile, dim-witted, sexist, offensive, and inappropriate? Of course not.

 

Buying a car being equated to dating a women? Bizarre. Personally I do not find anything appealing about pleading with a seller of extravagantly priced goods to allow me the privilege of purchasing one of their products. This does not enhance the buying or ownership experience.

 

I get it.