Ferrari 599 - opinions on future market | FerrariChat

Ferrari 599 - opinions on future market

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by wheretheroadends, Apr 8, 2018.

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  1. wheretheroadends

    May 25, 2007
    58
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Payman Nia
    Hi all, I again have an opportunity to park some funds for a year or 2 (hopefully longer) and nothing I'd rather get my hands on more than a 599. For years, I've had the fortune/luck to get in to cars above my "budget" and back out within an expected selling price range but nothing over the $100K mark so I'm a bit under informed with this one. I'm only able to consider a 599 since 2007s are now coming up in the $120-130K range (at or below 20K miles) so I was hoping for some opinions on the 599s future market and how 4-8K additional miles might affect the value? It seems that 2007/2008s may be at or close to their full depreciation. Would appreciate your thoughts/suggestions...thanks!
     
  2. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    Rule of thumb on modern Ferraris is they hit the bottom of their depreciation curve around 35% of MSRP. For example, in 2003, I started looking at Maranellos, instead of Daytonas, because the price was going down. I ended up buying a 1998 for $125k that had a sticker over $200k. Twenty thousand miles, five years, and many, many dollars in repair costs later, I sold it for $70k. YMMV.

    BTW, I could have brought a cherry Daytona for $125k in 2003. Oh well.
     
  3. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,350
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Plenty of room still to drop in price over the next few years. I would say they are not a good place to park money. Buy it to drive it. Maybe a couple of 308 carb cars would be a better place. They seem to be fairly solid at the moment.
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  4. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,348
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    It will depreciate, and if the stock market falls apart, it will depreciate substantially.
     
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  5. barabba

    barabba Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2007
    682
    Ticino / Zurich
    You may have better luck with a TR, 348, 3x8 or 355. Those have, IMHO, better chance of keeping their value or even increasing in the short term than a 599.
     
  6. wheretheroadends

    May 25, 2007
    58
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Payman Nia
    Thank you all so far for the responses. I'm definitely not looking for a garage queen and I'm really loving the 599 (not just looking to buy a Ferrari). It certainly makes a difference, however, if consensus is for further depreciation (of course, specific to my situation). Also, a lot of current listings are probably those with a list of 10 year maintenance issues that non-original owners neglected (clutch, CCM discs, common issues like radiator and shock leaks, etc...). A few more years should bring about listings that have taken care of these and will advertise accordingly. Good news is that I don't think the 599 will woo me any less in a few years than it does today. Again, great info and any other posts would be appreciated.
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  7. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    Maranellos look better imo the 550 and 575 both are tremendous. Both are still relatively cheap and id say have more upside than a 599
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    Ps. I think buying cars as an investment is a bad idea.
     
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  9. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    I dont know man, as part of a diversified portfolio, its not a big deal. I'll tell you what, buying a new car sure isn't. I lost $150k on my SL65, but I feel like buying a gorgeous, rare Ferrari like a 575 near the bottom of their depreciation where they are now at around $90-120k. I feel like you could do alot worse like buying just about any new car thats out there. For me if I can hold this car for 10 years, have fun and possibly breakeven which would be say I paid $104k and spend lets assume $50k over 10 years. If I can walk away in 10 years at $154k or higher, I would feel like it was a win. Now for those guys buying new 488s and californias......god speed, after I lost my ass on my sl65 im not sure how anyone really buys any new car. I saw the post a few above that in 2003 they could have bought a daytona for $125k, Id say that would have been a solid investment
     
  10. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    Yeah, the Daytona was me....

    I'm not a collector. I'm not an investor. I buy cars because I want to drive em. I have found being a bottom feeder works best.
     
  11. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 15, 2012
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    Other than the manuals, I don't think a 599 is a good place to park your money. The 550/575m's are the last classic looking Ferraris, and the F12 is the first modern beast. The 599 F1's seem to be in a no man's land in between. So, they could depreciate a lot more, IMO, and the maintenance costs can be really high. In five years they could be bargains that are hard to move.
     
  12. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    For a year or two, an early 599 probably costs you:

    PPI and shipping - $3,000
    Tax - $8,000 (Texas)
    Repairs and maint - $4,000
    Depreciation (includes buying at retail and selling at wholesale) - $15,000

    Looking at $30k for 2 years of ownership...

    Now pound that LIKE button
     
  13. WJGESQ

    WJGESQ Formula 3

    Dec 30, 2004
    1,477
    Would have to be fun.


    It's gonna cost ya, but just might be worth it.
     
  14. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,716
    Tropical
  15. phil the brit

    phil the brit Formula 3

    Jul 7, 2013
    1,215
    Colchester+Clermont
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    Phil Taylor
    Manual 599's are doing really well right now, one sold at auction recently for $417K
    Buy a factory built HGTE 599 and that is money well spent as so few of them were made.
     
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  16. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2009
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    London
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    Sid Korshak
    599 has a classic engine, the same one as the Enzo, and the gearbox and engine are seemingly indestructible, I’ve heard of relatively few issues. All ferraris are going to cost in servicing etc, but I think one that drives 3-5000 miles a year at the prices they are now, you won’t really lose much, whether you gain is another matter. I think phil is right though, if you want the most depreciation protection, and don’t want to buy a GTO, then it’s the best spec, later cars, that will probably be the most sought after (and hence, command the best pricing) in years to come. The trouble is, the manual is the rare one, and no one is going to sell that car cheaply. That’s the appreciating one really for the next 10 years, while the F1 will likely bobble around where it is as it’s great value for its money
     
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  17. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    Frankly, it is hard to beat the Vanguard S&P 500. I don't believe in investing in cars. I believe in driving em.
     
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  18. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    The S&P500 will probably underperform a classic ferrari over the next decade. We're at like 16x earnings and about to enter a rising rate environment.
     
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  19. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Morrie
    I cant own cars for investments, I love taking them apart too much. Then again I rarely hold any stock longer than a week. Since the beginning of 2017 I have bought a sold Geely 27 times, and I could have bought 200 599's with what I made on that stock alone.
     
  20. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    The OP wasn't talking about classic Ferraris. He was talking about F599s.
     
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  21. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    All Ferraris are "classic" its just a matter of to what generation......Im 32 and I bought my classic ferrari which is a 575 bc that was the dream when I was a teen. There will be kids out there whose dream as children is the 599, its all a matter of perspective. Im sure today's youths could care less about a 166 or a 246 or hell even a 308 but they're classics to someone and im fairly certain the 599, if we can keep the computers on the car functioning in the future, im sure that will be someones dream down the road. It's too awesome to not be a classic, my god it shares an engine with the enzo!
     
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  22. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    The OP was talking about parking money for the next two years or so. Your F575 will not be going up much in the next two years, sorry.
     
  23. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 15, 2012
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    It's a Type F140 engine. Since the Enzo it has been in every V12 car in one configuration or another. The problem is with the transmission. The F12 has a larger displacement/more powerful type 140, but the DCT makes it perfectly smooth and manageable. I just think the 599 F1's will be considered less desirable than the 575M and the F12, with the exception of the 599 GTO. THAT will be an interesting car to watch the value of.
     
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  24. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2009
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    Depends on how they hold up mechanically, the best drivers can use the F1 box and make it sing, just as they can a manual.. the DSG boxes are of course a massive step, but then, so was traction control, CCM braking, etc etc, that hasn’t hurt old classics

    I agree that the GTO will outperform the base car, but it’s production numbers that really hit the value, they make more and more of each class of car, and availability is the key. If there’s hundreds rather than thousands, or tens instead of hundreds, the values would rocket. They make too many of most of them these days
     
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  25. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    39,601
    Texas
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    David
    I'm currently looking at the "Next" Ferrari.
    My choices are whittled down to the 599 HGTE, 430 Scud, or 430 manual.
    I ALWAYS look at the back end sale portion before going in.
    Would you "kick any of the three out of bed" ? ;)
    As much as I love the looks and concept of the 599 it still has a ways to go downward.
    There are 45+ Scuds for sale.
    70+ x 599s
    There are less than a half a dozen 6 speed 430s.

    All that's needed is to follow my own advice.
     

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