Claire Williams: "We could close down . . "

Trying too hard to influence budget cap costs, I would say . . . .

http://www.planetf1.com/news/williams-warns-f1-we-could-close-down/

 

It would be very upsetting to see them close doors. Williams is my second favorite team after Ferrari.

 

I could totally see it happening. If energy drink sales ever took a hit you'd lose 4 cars. Sauber can't be staying afloat like they are for that long.

 

We periodically hear the same thing year in and year out and yet.....if they want budget caps might I suggest Williams cross the "pond" and perhaps head to another series.

 

If the F1 regulations drastically limited aerodynamic devices and simplified power units a budget cap wouldn't be necessary. Apparently this is not possible.

 

They did it to themselves by allowing drivers to pay for a ride. You get what you pay for.

 

Lol, I don't believe it for a second. Williams makes a fortune from their "non racing" ventures. Now Force India, maybe, but they have been saying they're broke for years yet here they are still on the grid.

She might want a cost cap and yes F1 (particularly these stupid hybrid engines) is too expensive but when your lead driver is Lance Stroll you're not going to be winning jack **** even if they ran spec aero kits and Cosworth DFVs so some of their management decisions aren't helping the cause

 

Without 2 pay driver's,... Williams would be gone next year. Martini is out. I can't see them getting another sponsor near Martini caliber.

Anyone know what Martini was paying per season?

Williams only hope is landing a Factory deal. Williams-BMW,... Williams-Porsche,... Williams-Audi,... Williams-Hyundai... Save that,... the only question is who will survive longer... Sir Frank or the Team. It's sad really...

 

Sometimes I wonder who this.

Look at McLaren. They through away a $100+ m sponsor, still have no sponsor, and still compete and invest heavily in upgrades.

 

hmmmm..........

How many F1 teams have went defunct in the last 10 years? Manor went belly up,Force India could go if they have 2-3 really bad years and Sauber manages to get by.

So too bad Williams. I could care less if you called it quits. You have great people designing your car and a Mercedes engine in the back so thats your problem.

Get rid of Stroll and the young Russian or pull a McLaren and find a works engine. Everyone thinks McLaren was dumb but it was a gamble that said a lot about the team.

 

You mean they make a fortune in F1!! I guess that number depends on constructor title position.

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Yes, but if that driver brings money to the team, they have no choice.

Just look at all the great teams that have folded over the years - some teams nobody ever thought would fold:

Tyrrell, Brabham, Lotus, March, Lola, and a lot of teams that faded or morphed into other names like
Cooper, Bennetton, ATS, Renault, Shadow, Hesketh, Surtees, Ensign, Ligier, Osella, and a bunch I
forgot about.

At the end of the day, a team is just a business, and businesses close down all the time, it's sad, but that's
the way it is in business. Just ask Sear's, ToysRuS, Montgomery Ward's, Radio Shack, etc.

 

Bottom line, WRC is more exciting to watch. And look at how many manufacturers are taking part in it. Ford, Peugeot, Citroen, Hyundai, Skoda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, BMW (Mini)...and their are plenty of privateers. And they are cars we can identify with, and they have lots of in car and out of car coverage. F1 needs to dump of politically correct BS and go back to being about auto racing.

 

Whether or not you like Williams and or sympathise with their current position I think is to miss the point.

If there is not a sensible budget cap, however that is achieved, then a number of teams will undoubtedly disappear, not just Williams, and do we really want to just have F1 as a two-three team series?

And if it does end up as a two-three team series how long will it last as a series as who is going to watch it?

 

F1 has larger issues than a Williams failure. Liberty inherited a sport that has a choice to make in terms of future and its appearance. The audience is changing and racing is changing. Williams are a small symptom of a sport without a distinct direction. You cant pass, and the PU is cost prohibitive and made in small numbers by 3 teams. Too tire reliant. Multiple tire formula.

If you want simplicity and cost savings the major powers will leave. So there is no F1 really. Its already a competition between 3 teams and the rules they approve.

F1 has to decide what formula will be used in the future. What will propel the cars etc etc. No direction on that for really 3 more years. F1 is already dead man walking and Liberty may or may not save what is left. Whats left of the Internal Combustion power unit is not the issue. What Formula 1 will be is electric more than fuel or gas combustion. We dont want to admit that but that is the longer term future for whatever F1 evolves to.

 

HONDA. TOYOTA. Honda found zero sponsors EVER. Toyota had Panasonic as a minor sponsor. Toyota never had a main sponsor. Think about that. Two of the largest car makers on the planet couldn't find a unicorn.

I knew Williams was toast the moment FIA allowed HAAS to buy customer cars. The only thing HAAS brings to F1 are socket wrenches and screwdrivers. They develop exactly nothing. They outsource their chassis and aero and Ferrari provides everything else. Smaller teams cannot compete with that.

Williams has no rich backers and banks won't give them money. They have two years at best, then they are done for.

Force India is next.

HAAS has one foot out the door, which is odd because they MAKE EXACTLY NOTHING on their cars.

McLaren is on the bubble, too. No premier sponsor and a GIANT MONEY HOLE IN THE WATER that is their F1 program.

None of this is news. FIA was warned of the danger of customer cars AT LEAST twenty years ago.

The whole mess will collapse unless FIA does a Bernie and props up Williams....which they won't.

Look what the FIA did to WRC. No one watches it. It has to vie for space on secondary broadcast channels along with reruns of 80's shows. I am not being melodramatic here.

Williams is the first domino, and Liberty aren't smart enough to keep it stable.

 

Good analysis.

One thing: I see Force India close down BEFORE Williams does.

 

Budget caps were mooted back in the days of the V10...nothing happened and the sport is still around today. I think the solution is to simply move around from the hybrid formula, how many spectators are really interested in that? My guess is more would like a screaming V10 engine.

 

Not sure I agree on Haas. They are there for the US market to generate US viewers. F1 needed to expand its viewer base, hence Sochi/China etc. and to attract more viewers in the US, they needed a US interest hence Haas. I'd say a Bernie master class.

As to going all electric, I doubt it somehow. Electric cars will not take over internal combustion engines; they are part of the "solution" but not THE "solution". They are suited to cities only, and the true environmental impact of them will come home to roost in due course. As such there is still a demand for something else, and we already have the something else in an internal combustion engine. It might not be powered by petrol or diesel, it could be LNG perhaps as per the route shipping is going, as this will provide the critical infrastructure for its distribution, but that is still internal combustion!

 

I do not have the numbers but I guess looking at the values the rights in F1 are traded for Liberty might earn a fortune...
So maybe it is time that they give a little bit more to the teams and take it as an investement in the future so that they can also earn money in 20 years...But just like with Bernie before I have the impression that F1 is run like every other business in the stock market: just try to make as much profit as you can NOW to keep the shareholder value up. When things go down in a few years those responsible for are gone anyway.

 

Force India needs to get points to survive. The last 3 seasons have been quite profitable for them but their luck might have run out. Hopefully those three seasons can keep them afloat.

With the way that Alexander Rossi is driving this year in Indy, I could see Haas giving him a shot if one of their drivers defect. It would be really good for the American team to have a rising american name like Rossi on their team

 

HAAS has one foot out the door, which is odd because they MAKE EXACTLY NOTHING on their cars.
They make machine tools that many teams use. This relates to racing!

 

I'm not privy to whatever deals brought Haas into F1, but they are racing and following the rules that allowed them to buy components, the rules allow them to sub-contract chassis building as long as Haas designs it, etc, etc, so I don't understand the hate of Haas. Gene Haas isn't doing this to make Bernie or Liberty happy, he's doing it to promote his machine business, and when it's not paying off for him he's free to leave F1. Since 2010 we've had Haas join, and the three other "new" teams go by the wayside. I think the take away from all this is that F1 won't do anything about budget cap and team payments until AFTER the grid drops to 18 or less cars.

 

Well, if I'm not mistaken, actually Haas don't design the chassis: they subcontract that to Dallara too. The rules specify that the teams must own the intellectual property of the design, not that they have to design the cars themselves: they can buy the intellectual property.

Haas only do some aero work and the final assembly of the car.

 

F1s real problem is that its audience is rapidly marching toward the grave. Most F1 fans are middle-aged + and have been fans for decades. Younger fans are not going to be attracted to the sort of processional races that are the norm in F1. They want action, a free-for-all, with cars and driver mixing it up on every lap. There's precious little action in holding your breath to see if Kimi is close enough to Bottas so that the DRS will let him slip past.