Mercedes and Pirelli

Anyone? I'd like to see the quote...and please, no links to something that quotes AMuS. I want to see the post that Daytona355 keeps mentioning. TIA.

 

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/formula-1-gran-premio-de-espana-emirates-2018-qualifying-spoilers.575818/page-6#post-145978703 post 126?

Pirelli agree to change after Mercedes approach--->April 7, 2018

http://www.planetf1.com/news/pirelli-agree-to-mercedes-tyre-demands


Pirelli caters to Mercedes' blistering tyre demands!-->April 7, 2018 (that pic in this article is from testing)

http://www.f1i.com/news/299667-pirelli-caters-mercedes-blistering-tyre-demands.html

 

Awesome, thanks man, I was beginning to wonder if it was a morphine induced memory I was having..... I am truly getting a little better now! Thank god for that! I’d leave my body to medical science, but I think medical science might sue me under the trade goods descriptions act! It’s well worn with more than a bit of accident damage!

Somewhere there is the actual press release that Pirelli handed out too, but I can’t remember which thread

 

Also this was during Barcelona testing 2018..

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/barcelona-testing-2018.570203/page-44 post # 1097

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https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/barcelona-testing-2018.570203/page-45 ---> post # 1101


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FChatter Brandon posted this one too......

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/barcelona-testing-2018.570203/page-53 post # 1305

F1 testing: Bullish Mercedes has soft-tyre doubts from Barcelona


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/134760/bullish-mercedes-has-softtyre-doubts

 

No...

Daytona355 claims there is a press release from Pirelli saying they are doing it at Mercedes request.

I specifically said that I'd like to see that press release... NOT the anonymous muhr-mah-muhr from the AMuS article. Everything seems to go back to that very vague article... a whole lot of conspiracy from nothing.

 

Top man

 

FChatter DF1 posted this

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/barcelona-testing-2018.570203/page-53 post # 1323


More on Mercedes and tires in the test - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/134845/why-mercedes-avoided-urvivalonly-tyre-in-test

Mercedes avoided Pirelli's new hypersoft tyre in Formula 1 testing because it will just be a compound to "survive" on this season, according to team principal Toto Wolff.

Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas ended the two weeks at Barcelona more than a second off Sebastian Vettel's pace, but did not pursue one-lap performance and only moved away from soft or medium Pirellis to try the ultrasoft.

Wolff dismissed any suggestion of the lack of time on the softest tyres being a weakness, claiming it was better for Mercedes' test programme as a whole.

"We decided not to use the hypersoft because we felt it is a tyre that is usable for one lap only, and that in testing it is about collecting data and understanding set-ups," he said.

"The hypersoft is just an additional big step in grip from the ultrasoft.

"It will be a qualifying tyre, and we felt that we would rather concentrate on the development work than on single-lap.

"I think the hyper will be a qualifying tyre only, and you just need to hang onto it in the first couple of laps, and survive."

Wolff said that "every car" suffered blistering on the softer compounds in testing and reckoned that meant races they are used "can be exciting".

But he also suggested that Pirelli's estimates of big steps between each compound would not prove to be accurate.

"What we have seen is that the steps in performance and in grip between the tyre compounds was relatively small," he said.

"Between medium and soft, soft and supersoft, supersoft and ultrasoft you could see tiny steps, between a tenth or two, sometimes no step at all.

"With some teams, like Williams, there was no step at all."

 

Yes, there was, branded up Pirelli, and it is on the Pirelli website no doubt, but you’d better use timemachine on an apple device that visited the site on the day, because I’ll put money on it it no longer resides there, but you’re a clever lad, search the threads, you’ll see it, it was a big picture of the very press release stating the exact text as described in the articles already posted here to help you.

Whee do you hope to go with it, are you going to pretend I infiltrated Pirelli, nicked some headed paper, jumped in the doctors tardis and handed them out ? Hehehehehe hehehehehehehe hehehehehe. Getting a bit desperate aren’t we... didn’t you see that you were the poster directly above some of these links?

 

Again... doesn't really connect to the conspiracy at all...

Mercedes is still having those soft tire issues and has for years. Their tire allocation/selection is consistently biased towards the harder compounds. That issue is totally separate from what and why Pirelli made their changes on the resurfaced tracks.

 

I get the feeling that while some of you like to try to present me as some foaming mouthed Tifosi moron, you actually know that I am posting, albeit in a rather special style (which is meant to be talkative, but not aggressive) very factual and very reasonable facts, assumptions and conclusions, and that I in fact know rather a lot about the subjects I get involved on.

I’d be much less talkative if one or two actually just accepted that the fact is, Mercedes asked for the tyres to be changed while the other teams were happy to deal with the issues they may or may not have been experiencing with them... thus creating an issue whereby at the very first race they were changed, Mercedes performance suddenly peaked by a large margin. All teams and commentators happily tell us all the time how difficult it is to find a tenth or two of performance, yet seemingly you guys are relying on a myth that Mercedes have been able to generate over a second of pace over its nearest rivals with no help at all from a change of tyres they initiated and demanded? Pull the other one lads, it’s got bells on it....

Why don’t we simply agree to disagree, as neither you, nor I, can categorically prove without a doubt for the other party they are right, but I’m happy knowing that I am the one that actually IS RIGHT

 

I know exactly what I've posted and I've seen what others have claimed. I make a genuine effort to find the information you quote, but can't and you have repeatedly said that you can't be bothered to provide links. That's fine. I accept that...the defensive drama beyond that really isn't needed.

 

I haven’t the patience for trawling through, if it didn’t exist, I wouldn’t have mentioned it though mate. I just don’t see that I need to find posts for someone else, if you want to find it, I’m afraid it’s down to you, it’s there. Hopefully it’ll turn up in the one place you never looked!

 

Dr. Marko seems to think so. I did'nt see any pics of RedBulls tyres blistering or looking like the Grand Canyon.



Dr Helmut Marko is alleging that Mercedes is receiving special treatment by F1 tyre supplier Pirelli.

Wolff slams Marko over tyre conspiracy https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/wolff-slams-marko-over-tyre-conspiracy/ …

May 15 - Toto Wolff has slammed Red Bull's Dr Helmut Marko for alleging that Mercedes is receiving special treatment by F1 tyre supplier Pirelli.

Already, Sebastian Vettel has suggested the new, thinner tyre tread supplied by Pirelli in Barcelona was a cause of Ferrari's sudden struggle.

"You don't have to be a genius to understand that the tyres get harder when you scratch off 4 millimetres. That's how other teams got on better than we did," the German told Bild newspaper.

Red Bull's Marko agrees: "The tyres were changed at the request of Mercedes.

"When you're a team and a manufacturer at the same time, you can do that.

"We produce energy drinks," he continued to Auto Bild. "Of course we cannot influence as much compared to a
maker of passenger cars."


Mercedes boss Wolff, however, hit back at Marko's allegations.

"It's not the first time the doctor sees ghosts," he said.

"There were problems with blistering on the tyres in the winter tests, even at Red Bull. The rears looked like a volcanic landscape. So Pirelli improved them.

"It's bad for business if tyres explode.

"I think it looks weak if you have a bad weekend and complain. First and foremost, we look at ourselves for our problems," Wolff added.

 

The funniest thing is, the Mercedes fans here will claim Wolff has no reason to deflect the blame........ duhhhhh

 

Mercedes whines Pirelli makes changes to placate the whine then MB wins in dominating fashion.

Not hard to understand that MB (and Hammy) cannot deal with adversity.

 

Wolff AND Nikki are the most duplicitous people in the sport. Read Brawn’s book.

 

I know you guys have a mad hate going on right now regarding Mercedes and the thinner tread Pirelli tires, but you might want to take the time to read Vettel's comments from today after Ferrari tested the regular Pirelli tires and the thin tread Pirellie tires (as used in Sunday's Spainish GP (written deliberately to honour the track guys who painted it as such prior to Thursday!).

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2018/05/ferrari-would-have-been-worse-off-with-normal-tyres-in-spain-vettel/
https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/18200 - "Sebastian Vettel says Pirelli were right to change Spain tyres"

Here's what Vettel is quoted as saying:

Sebastian Vettel ultimately feels Pirelli Motorsport made the right to bring updated tyre compounds with thinner treads to the Spanish Grand Prix, believing his Scuderia Ferrari team would have been even worse off had they brought the standard tyres to the Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya.

The German was able to run back-to-back tests with both the usual tyre and the thinner tread tyre on the first day of the post-Spanish Grand Prix on Tuesday, and after initially questioning the decision of Pirelli to bring the different tyre last weekend, the test underlined just why the tyre manufacturer did it, and it was ultimately Ferrari who were at fault for not getting the same kind of tyre life out of them as other teams achieved.

The same thinner treads will be used in both the French and British Grand Prix later this season in a bid to prevent overheating issues on what will be freshly re-laid tarmac at both venues, but Vettel hopes Ferrari will be able to learn from their exploits in Spain to have better races at the Circuit Paul Ricard and Silverstone.

“I think it’s pretty straightforward,” Vettel is quoted as saying by Motorsport.com. “Obviously normally you don’t get the chance to revisit this kind of decisions that are made, but I think we did now with the day that we had today, and I think the result is that, if we had the normal tyres on Sunday, we’d probably even be worse off.

“So I think it was the correct call, and it was our fault not to have the same tyre wear or life as other people.”

Vettel will hand over the driving duties to test driver Antonio Giovanazzi for Wednesday’s second and final day of the test in Spain, but he feels it was important to test on Tuesday to try and understand just why Ferrari was not as quick as their rivals on race day in Spain last Sunday.

“It’s good to have the test, to be honest, to be able to compare,” said the German. “And I think we have some ideas, and now it’s up to us to turn those ideas into reality.

“[The test] was quite good in terms of timing. It was a poor weekend for us, we were not quick enough. I think more than not quick enough we were obviously struggling to make the tyres last.

“Those two things are linked. But it was good to have the possibility to revisit, and now it’s up to us to take action.”​

Gee, how unfair of Vettel to blow all the conspiracy theories out of the water in one statement! First, he confirms that Ferrari wasn't using the tire correctly and could not run a single stop strategy in the race because they were wearing the front tires too fast... so that clears Jock Clear and the roasting he got here for a bad two stop strategy. Second, he confirms that the thinner tread tires were better for the race and Pirelli was right to change them, and pretty much all the other teams were able to get them to work for the race and that Ferrari screwed up.

 

Vettel has been speaking out of both sides of the mouth in regards to this tire change. He has clearly said in multiple interviews that it’s the reason for Mercedes speed.

 

The discussion we are trying to have, but no one wants to answer, is that Mercedes new tyres gave them alone a performance gain of over a second a lap. That’s not just making a tyre last better to prevent a few extra pitstops, it’s gaining a duplicitous advantage through collusion with Pirelli. On the Mercedes, the old tyres had them in one position, performance wise, and the new punted them up the road more than if their engine got 50bhp boosted, but was no improvement pace worse for ANYONE else.

Pleas explain that, if you can, becuase then there wouldn’t be a conspiracy at all. Vettel stating that the longevity of the two tyres meant that the 2017 compound used produced less blistering and therefore lasted longer and required less pitstops is one thing, Mercedes running this years compounds producing one level of performance, while the 2017 tyres produce a massive differential in performance is cheating, plain and simple. It required 9 teams to change the way they use the tyres purely to suit Mercedes who were not prepared to make changes to their 2018 car to suit the 2018 tyres. The sport is based on a 10vote system, yet on this occasion, the FIA has allowed Pirelli to make a fundamental performance change on the basis of 1 vote

 

I see no overt conspiracy and Vettel has not helped the effort to find one at all. Ferrari were not fastest in testing in Spain. Mercedes did a better job and thats how this must be. Next race in Monaco. I expect Ferrari to be stronger there and for this issue to be done.

 

Monaco will be red bulls race to lose

 

Fantastic book, isn’t it?

That book is recommended for all here on FChat.

 

Fantastic. I got the audio book and got through it in two days. I will revisit it again soon. So cool.