275 GTB 5161GT SEFAC Prototipo | FerrariChat

275 GTB 5161GT SEFAC Prototipo

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by XTP, Jun 5, 2018.

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  1. XTP

    XTP Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2005
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    Xander
  2. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    Never seen a pic of what it looked like originally...o_O
     
  3. XTP

    XTP Formula Junior

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    Xander
    Thanks for the reply. Does anyone else have any additional information.

    The site barchetta mentioned number 5161GT as 250 GTB Prototype.
    The book Ferrari on the Road mentioned 5161GT as a 250 GT Lusso.

    The car was also spotted in monaco in 2016
    https://www.autogespot.nl/ferrari-275-gtb-sefac-prototipo/2016/05/10

    The carsite "autogespot" mentioned that the original owner was Michel Paul Cavallier and the car was special made for him.
    Afther the car was shipped to America it was converted to a spider.

    When the car returned to Europe it was restored to its original configuration.

    I do not know the truth, maybe there is someone (Marcel?) who can confirm this.

    Kind regards
    Xander
     
  4. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    22,737
    5161 GT was built in February 1963. A prototype which was heavily crashed during early road testing (NOT at Fiorano, that track didn't exist yet).
    Original color Avorio (ivory) with red interior.
    The wreck was never repaired, and it was never sold by the factory. It was scrapped.
    Many moons later somebody built a fantasy car, apparently using the ID of 5161 GT.

    Marcel Massini
     
  5. XTP

    XTP Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2005
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    Xander
    Dear Marcel,

    Thank you very much for your message and your explanation of this issue.
    Do you have a picture of the car before it was crashed.

    I would like to know how this car looked at that time.

    Xander Tempelmans Plat
     
  6. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    Hi Marcel,

    Prototype OK, but with what kind of body ? Lusso ? GTO ? Did you ever see a picture of that car ?

    Thanks in advance
     
  7. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    Really no idea about the original body of 5161GT ?? :eek:
     
  8. XTP

    XTP Formula Junior

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    Xander
    Marcel, (or someone)

    Is there a picture of the car before it is chrashed?
    I would like to know what the car looked like

    Gr.
    Xander
     
  9. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
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    #9 bitzman, Jul 4, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2023
    OK I'm giving up the fantasy it was ever a special car, here's my story now--any holes big enuff to drive a car through?

    The Ferrari That Never Was?

    The world of prototype Ferraris is not cut and dried. Cars appear years after the production model and sorta look kinda like the production model and the claim is that they are the real father.

    So when I saw the Ferrari shown here, I thought what kind of 275GB is it? It's not a production model but with that recessed back window--of the 250LM.

    Then I found a website that said it is known as The S.E.F.A.C. corporation (Societa Esercisio Fabriche Automobili e Corse) a group founded the 23rd of may 1960 by Enzo Ferrari and Michel Paul-Cavallier, who was made its C.E.O.

    Michel Paul-Cavalier was an influential French industrial (foundries of Pont-a-Mousson) with carrying the torch for sports and racing cars. He would regularly go to Maranello to meet with Enzo Ferrari and plan cars based on existing models

    So this prototype, 05161 GT, no matter how much most of it looks like a 275 GT/B is said to be built on the chassis and powertrain of a 250 GT.

    That origin is backed by its listing by SN on the site barchettacc.

    Some sources say it is the first prototype 275 GT/B. It was delivered 03/20/1963. So the confusing thing is that this car predates the 1964 250 GTO series 2 that came out a year later yet has the roof style today of that model (but actually Pininfarina built a Speciale for Ingrid Bergman years before with that same roof) .


    In 1964, Ferrari built a second prototype 275 GTB #06003 GT short nose,only to come back by the end of the year to an elongated nose matching the general shape of the first generation GTO of 1962

    Several sites say the car was wrecked in testing in the spring of 1963, at Fiorano, and the wrecked car given to Michel .

    After his death, it was sold by the garage of Hughes Hazar of Nancy to Colonel Dick Mitchell who was attached to the USAF base of Rosieres-en-Haye.

    Once imported to the US the hacksaws came out and it was cut into a cabriolet (or ws it cut in Europe?) and sat in long term storage in Sacramento CA. In the nineties, it returned to Europe where it was restored to its original configuration.

    I was going along with this until I read a June 6 posting n Ferrari Chat.com from Marcel Massini, a Swiss based guru of all things Ferrari. He intoned "5161 GT was built in February 1963. A prototype which was heavily crashed during early road testing (NOT at Fiorano, that track didn't exist yet).....The wreck was never repaired, and it was never sold by the factory. It was scrapped.

    Many moons later somebody built a fantasy car, apparently using the ID of 5161 GT."
    I checked-- Fiorano was built in 1972.

    But the dream weaving goes on--a 2016 story said the car is valued at $30 million,(alos referred to that value in a You Tube video entitled

    $30 M FERRARI 275 GTB SEFAC PROTOTIPO | 1 of 1 - 2016 HQ
    which I think would be a logical number if the car's history was documented six ways to Sunday. But Massini has ruled, You either believe him or you don't.

    In sum, to a newcomer, the world of old Ferraris can be a dizzying trip through a bazaar. You see some interesting cars here and there, some with very dramatic stories involving royalty, movie stars, race car drivers, kings of industry. But I warn you not to be seduced by the looks or a potted history. I oughta know, I have a side gig selling thoroughbreds. Some are the most beautiful horses you've ever seen. But pedigree first, lads.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Again: All factory documents including assembly data sheets and other data have disappeared at the factory and are completely lost.

    Marcel Massini
     
  11. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Numbering of new frames was running somewhere around 45xx, so if this car really existed at that time - even as a bare frame - it must have been carrying another number.
     
  12. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    And this story about the car wrecked in testing in the spring of 1963 rings a bell with Mairesse’s crash with a GTO...
     
  13. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    I have a pretty good idea what we are looking for, but let's not speculate!
     
    ivo73 and Aardy like this.
  14. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    Please ! Do so ! :D
     
  15. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
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    Hard to believe today in 2023 that they have old prototypes to give away but at least 30 years ago i was driving by the factory and I saw a 308 looking distressed--the one with alloy fender extensions pp riveted on all round-it looked abandoned, as if they thought it had done its job and now it wasn't needed. I am sure some fan saved it....
     
  16. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    Was owned back then by a guy in Italy that bought it around that time and put it on the top shelf of a stack system in a warehouse
     

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