Advice needed on very low mileage Mondial

Hi All,

I am hoping to purchase a (new to me) Mondial that is in exceptional condition and has very low mileage (< 1k). The car truly is a time capsule and was part of a collection stored away for many years (actual number of years is unknown to me, but I will assume well over a decade). The car appears to have been stored in a clean, climate controlled environment all those years. The interior is pristine! The seller does not have any service records about the reconditioning that was performed after the car exited storage and was put back on the road. I'll assume the car needed a major service given the cars age and time in storage including tires, fluids, brakes, belts, pulley bearings, plugs, water pump?, bushings?, etc.

My question is, without a record of the reconditioning, can I trust a PPI to be confident the Mondial was put back on the road correctly with all of the necessary services? It seem like it would be difficult to tell if some critical items were replaced as part of the service without these records. If the service docs aren't found, should I assume the car needs to go through a major from a budgeting perspective to be safe? I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable driving the car unless I have piece of mind that the major was completed after all those years in storage.

Any advise is appreciated.

 

Hi,

A major is a must if no history , receipts of repair , maintenance etc. I dont know the extent of a PPI if the person performing it will go underneath the car using a lift , remove the cam covers , check the belts , tensioners , check the fuel & coolant hoses. At least a PPI will be able to confirm if it is what it is .
What kind of Mondial , Model etc.? Pictures please . I hope this helps w/ regards to your decision.

Best regard,

Luigi

 

Find out where it was serviced, and see if they have any records. The timing belt idler bearings are critical. These parts will fail from age. It would be impossible to check without taking things apart.

 

Thanks so much. This was my gut feeling. Good to confirm. Pulley bearings would be impossible to inspect without an engine out. I'm not sure I would trust anyone to guess the age of the belt based on inspection alone, particularly on a car that was in climate controlled storage for so many years. Even with a thorough PPI, it's a roll of the dice. Without the docs or being able to talk to the shop that performed the work, I have to treat this deal like no major was done at all. Need to start over with a fresh major.

 

Hi ,

If its a Mondial T I think , engine out is the norm if checking / replacing belts and bearing .But if its the 3.0 , 3.0 quattro V , & the 3.2 no need for an engine out if replacing / checking the belt .

Hope this helps ,

Luigi

 

Needs an engine out

 

So I presume its a Mondial T Joe ?

 

The few ultra low miles Mondial's ive seen for sale, have been quite expensive regardless of model. Approaching 6 figures or more.
This leaves 2 scenarios. You preserve its virgin like status, transport it to shows etc. Hard to see how much upside there is in $ value unless you pay much under market. That said what is the market on 1k Mondials??

Next, is your buying it to drive. Once you cross the thresholds of 5, 10, 15k its no longer the rare car you bought. Its value will be like the rest. This plus fixing all the issues of sitting will be very expensive.
100k car plus repairs of 5 to 10k......drive it 10k miles maybe its worth half that??

 

Correct sir.

 

I would be buying this Mondial to drive it, so verifying the recent services to put it back on the road is very important. Yes, for the price I would pay for probably the lowest mileage example I'd likely see some depreciation putting miles on it. It doesn't really bother me. I think it would be worth it to have an absolutely pristine body and interior. So far, the seller can only prove that the oil and brake fluid were changed after being taken out of long term storage. At this point, it appears that a major is in order to avoid owning a ticking bomb. I'm contemplating next moves. I'm not sure I want to take on a project if something with the major doesn't go as planned.

 

The body and interior are not the most costly part of the vehicle to run and maintain. The car sounds great but I would be looking at potentially much more than a ‘major’. I would want to inspect fuel lines and pumps and coolant lines, brake lines, mindful of gaskets that have sat and not been used much, etc. Then there’s the simply stuff like 4 new tyres depending on date (rather than just tread depth). I would expect a PPI to spot a lot of this stuff. Just that you may find that it’s only once it’s back on the road regularly that you experience some additional work. Not the sign of a bad car / deal; just something to plan for... still sounds like a great car.


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If you're buying a >1k mile car, you're likely paying a premium. If the depreciation doesn't bother you and you plan to rack on the miles, why does the major service?

Buy it and perform another major service for peace of mind. While you're in there, replace everything. The car is like new, but everything else is old and likely dry rotted.

 

My concern is that the car is being advertised (...and in my opinion, priced) as fully serviced and ready for the road. This is what was communicated, but the docs tell a different story. As it stands with existing documentation, it is effectively a museum piece having only had an engine oil and brake fluid change after removal from long-term storage. I'm still not clear on how many years it was stored, but I will need to assume well over a decade unless documents can show proof to the contrary.

Of course the car might be great after someone completes the major, I'm just not sure if that person is me. Summer is nearly here and I'm not really looking for project, particularly if the major uncovers something significant due to improper storage.

 

I would suggest respectfully enlightening the seller on what commands museum piece pricing, and that a fully documented service history is one of the crtitical components. Unfortunately taking ones word for it is not going to sell this car to you or anyone else that would consider it.

If I were to buy that car personally, I would send it to Scuderia Rampante and have it totally gone through. I would have a engine out major performed, water pump inspected and replaced if necessary, all hoses (coolant, oil, gas) replaced, fuel pumps removed from the fuel tank and rubber boots replaced, (if it's an '89, have the roller ball bearing on the timing chain pump upgraded), Gold Connector Kit, fuse box, inspect the windows, tires replaced, suspension rubber bushings checked/replaced as necessary, and only after those items were addressed, and addressed by SR as I know they are proficient in what they do, would I consider myself to have a reliable driver.

You would then have a virtually brand new Mondial t that will run and perform better than it did the day it was made. It would then be collector quality and more than just art to look at.

 

I don’t think the premium for its mileage is worth the cost of proper recommissioning IF you start to get in to hose, line, gasket and other replacement. Not so much do to poor storage, rather just ‘storage’. You’re $4-800 for tyres straight away! With no idea of how it’s been kept - in terms of turning over, running the electrics, etc. There is always the risk of stuff looking fine and then going South.

From what you’ve said, I think you’d be better looking for a well loved example, maybe one that needs a standard service to reflect the price, and for which a PPI should be straightforward.

Others can advise on the long term issues / realities of 3.4ts (I only have one front wing and the front and rear bumpers!!). I assume you’ve driven a Q.V. and a T to be happy with the performance differences?


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Apologies Alexion, your post wasn’t there when I started typing my largely duplicate post! Not sure if it’s the app, or middle age, or both.


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Looks like we both came through at the same time! Ha! No worries, great minds think alike.

 

I want to follow up and say that I'm not trying to sway you in one direction or the other, but rather be objective. I have an appreciation for low mileage cars too, and there is in fact a special feeling you get with having an old "new" car. That said, from my experience and reading over the last 5+ years here, the higher mileage, driven and maintained examples are the ones that are reliable. Garage queens and art pieces are generally just that when it comes to Ferrari.
I bought an '02 Honda S2000 with 3k miles. It looks, drives, runs and is virtually new. The same principals do not apply for Ferrari.

 

No worries. It's certainly very tempting to have such a low mileage example in stunning cosmetic condition. As another poster mentioned, the mechanical bits are the expensive stuff. I need to look past the paint and the leather and think about the mechanical service needed to be reliably driven. As it appears, this one needs a bunch unless vintage timing belts are your thing

 

Not sure the asking price, i could be way off here. Similar spec Mondials seen for sale were say 100k. Add 10k for service plus/minus easily. Now sales tax on that....115-125k all in.
Drive it 10k miles.....guess what its worth maybe 60k tops value.

So for me id cut to the chase and buy a very nice one at the lower price. As stated before a 10 to 40 k mile car is just broken in. Bought mine in 02 with 17k, now has 27k

 

No matter the depreciation, it won’t be worse than a new car. These cars are also going up in value, so if it becomes a driver and stays in nice shape, there won’t be too much hurt IMO.
Just think seals/rubber components. In addition to what I said earlier, think triple seals, TO bearing seals, etc.
All within the realm of possibility with a 1k or 50k mile Ferrari, but more likely with one that has sat.


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Totally agree. Do not buy this car to try to make into a dependable driver. Way too may things which need sorting out. You want to drive a Mondi? Buy a driver and leave the museum piece alone please.

 

There was a time when time capsule cars only carried a 10% to 20% premium. At those prices you could afford to buy it, perform any maintenance, and drive it if you wanted the luxury of a low mileage old car. But today it seems the price spreads are much higher.

 

I would also suggest that if you are buying the car to drive, the premium you pay for low miles quickly gets absorbed by adding miles. So the cost per mile (factoring in depreciation from the purchase price) is going to be very high. Unless the low miles premium is "reasonable" and factoring in the service cost of everything with no warranty makes economic sense.

If it is to go into a collection, it is nice art, and it should hold value (if not appreciate), but seems a waste to me. There is an annual carrying cost and time value of money. How much does it have to appreciate to offset those two items?

Regards,
Jerry

 

Where's the pics?