Countach Downdraft 1985 to 1988.5

GLA12948 with friends on a USA Highway recently

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Thanks for posting this Mike, I've seen this interview before but it's a nice review for this thread, great to see someone who's not afraid to tell it like it really was, and I'll note that his Bob Wallace story mirrors what I uncovered for my Miura book.

Interestingly, Giancarlo's sentiments about the Downdraft engine are consistent with every single person who was affiliated with building the cars @ Sant Agata, who has been formally interviewed on this topic. His boss Luigi Marmirolli, the Chief Engineer (pictured recently) responsible for the specification of both types of engine during the production of the QVs echoed those same sentiments, and reminded me of the specific purpose of both variants

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Anyone know the chassis number of this Blu/Bianco Downdraft that's Italy-registered DP.607.SE?

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Another from that series

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Flashback 1987 - Valentino sits on the sill of one of the factory's PR Downdrafts at Road & Track's World Fastest Cars test event

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Sure.

Perhaps you were looking for the Fuelie appreciation thread? https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/countach-qv-fi-thread.563509/

This is the Downdraft appreciation thread FWIW.

I think you missed the point of Giancarlo Barbieri's comments, which was about the driving experience of the Downdraft versus the Fuelie.

Like he said:

"The Countach 5200 QV (carburetors) was the best. The injection shuts everything up, you don't feel anything. For an engine enthusiast, injection doesn't talk to you. It's a whole different experience".

Chief Engineer Luigi Marmiroli has espoused the same, as have others who actually built the cars.

As someone who has owned and operated two (2) Fuelie Countachs and two (2) Downdrafts, and driven many more of each variant, my sentiments are 100% the same. The Downdraft is a much more alive and exciting experience, with the engine being significantly more responsive and potent. Also, the induction sound of the carbureted Countach is other-wordly compared to the plain mechanical sound of the Fuelie which is duplicated by other cars. The sound of the Downdraft is simply unmistakable, it's one of the great sports car engine sounds. The whole experience really is night & day. The Fuelie feels a bit lazy and anemic in response, and the revs tend to hunt which is very annoying. In summation, the most obvious difference is that the dynamic throttle response of the carbureted car is in a league of its own.

Everyone is entitled to their view, or should I say, the usual handful of protesting Fuelie owners are entitled to the myth they perpetuate that their cars are the same as the Downdraft, or that the best variant is (understandably) the Fuelie, and if that makes you happy, I say believe what you will. However, I give the credibility that's due to the experienced men who designed and produced these cars, their thoughts are the ones that are based on experience & reality, and therefore the ones that really matter.

Your notion that an Italian engineer would have a problem with a German-supplied system in the mid-80s contradicts the fact that Lamborghini used many German-supplied components right from the start in 1963.

Your suggestion that the Downdraft's advantage is based on it's exhaust and bumper advantage is truly funny, but sadly underscores the the basic lack of knowledge of the subject matter. At least it's predictable. The Downdraft engine is a more powerful unit by virtue of its higher compression pistons, upgraded camshafts, and superior induction. It's superior power & performance is based on the engine unit's internal configuration and is not just the external exhaust system & bumpers (or lack thereof)!

Happy to debate you forever on this topic, but first, let me say:

Happy Father's Day!

 

The factory's PR Downdraft trailing the 288 GTO on the way to Road & Track's 1987 World Fastest Cars test event at Volkswagen's Ehra-Lessien test facility.

The Downdraft carbureted engine ran perfectly at or near terminal velocity emitting "an absolutely spine-chilling scream" all day, whereas the GTO also managed just one lap before it's Marelli Electronic Fuel Injection system developed gremlins.

Meanwhile, I wonder why the factory didn't send a Fuelie Countach instead?

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I love your anecdote, but in Mimran's Nuova Lamborghini era especially by 1987, the factory had ample resources and were quite profitable, so the stories of the mid-to-late 70s hardship don't really apply.

In fact, we do know the answer, my question asking why they didn't send the Fuelie wasn't a rhetorical one, it was meant to invite an opportunity to elaborate.

Has anyone seen the written correspondence between Lamborghini and Road & Track regarding cars for testing in 1986?

Basically, the factory's official position was that the Fuel-injection engine was the Emissions engine and the Carbureted engine was the Performance engine.

So they sent the Downdraft, and not the Fuelie, when they had the choice of either.

That is exactly why they submitted the Downdraft for FIA Homologation, and not the Fuelie, when they had the choice of either.

Since the advent of this thread, the challenging claims of Fuelie owners have in effect motivated me to begin to really reach out and perform some diligent research and I can tell you that some of the material I have uncovered (factory letters, documents, build-sheets, test-sheets with performance numbers and more besides) makes for fascinating reading. It's an ongoing process that will culminate in publication.

As some like to say - its a discussion

 

JLA12395 again

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Thank you!

 

Yes, elaborate.

Elaborate upon the written correspondence between Lamborghini and Road & Track regarding cars for testing in 1986, establishing, the factory's official position was that the Fuel-injection engine was the Emissions engine and the Carbureted engine was the Performance engine.

That's why they sent the Downdraft, and not the Fuelie, when they had the choice of either.

It's also why they submitted the Downdraft for FIA Homologation, and not the Fuelie, when they had the choice of either.

Like I mentioned earlier, the howling protests of 1 or 2 Fuelie owners has only motivated me to do a better job with diligent research this past year, and as a result, the material I have uncovered (factory letters, documents, build-sheets, test-sheets with performance numbers and more besides) only underscores what has been stated within this thread. As time goes by we are able to gather material which will go into publication.

I'm not sure about Miami's heat, but in the sweltering summer months of the concrete jungles of Southern California, I have had the unfortunate experience of being stuck in traffic far too many times. Even with the admittedly crappy factory AC working, it's no fun. That said, my carbureted car runs perfectly and I'm happy to report that no spare plugs have been necessary, which is a good thing as I don't carry any! However, July & August are the only really uncomfortable months, the rest of the year is fairly dry and cool, and living just @ sea level, those carburetors are in heaven.

 

The Fuelie at Nardo "felt like it would be good for...and there is no reason to believe it wouldn't do...." , it was never electronically timed, so that example is, what's the word I'm looking for, meaningless.

The top speed achieved by an electronically timed Fuelie is @ 166mph, whereas multiple Downdrafts have been electronically timed @ 180 mph by the press, and significantly faster by the factory.

If you think an 'uncorked' Fuelie can top 166 electronically timed, you could always demonstrate.

Interestingly, in recent times a number of Dyno sheets have have been procured showing the factory's claim of 455 bhp was quite modest, and the claim of 420 for the Fuelie was somewhat exaggerated, think it terms of 385 - 410 bhp, depending on the state of uncorking.

 

Good for him, he sounds quite happy, you on the other hand, not-so-much.

Remember, this is a Downdraft appreciation thread, and so far as you are on here every day protesting this & that, it speaks to the fact that you are not very secure about what you have or very happy with it. If you were, you'd pay all this Downdraft appreciation little attention, and you'd basically remain unaffected by it

 

Since the Downdraft - Fuelie comparison is a hot topic I'll be posting some newly-collated data on this soon

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