Countach Downdraft 1985 to 1988.5

It's not just about the compression ratio of the pistons, the power difference of which I think you are underestimating a bit - the milder cams in the Fuelie make a difference also.

What nobody seems to be mentioning is that the standard 455 - 470 bhp of the Downdraft is measured by the works using the standard boxed muffler and not the sport exhaust, the latter good for additional power for the Downdfraft also. Additionally, the factory’s tuning package for the Downdraft engines also allowed for sports camshafts, bigger jets, carburetor spacers and air-flow optimization, the latter meaning that cars could be tuned to achieve 470 bhp plus as we have seen.

The driving 'character' you speak of is partially because the induction for the Downdraft is vastly superior as the route the air takes from the intake trumpets of the six Weber 44DCNF carbs into the combustion chambers is a short and relatively straight column that is only @ 12 inches or so. This is the main reason why the throttle response of the Downdraft is vastly superior to that of the Fuelie. With a Fuelie engine, the path the air has to take into the combustion chamber is much longer as it has to turn 180 degrees. With the Downdraft, the throttle plates are right there in the carb throats whereas the Fuelie system has two large butterflies where the flexible hoses meet the air plenum. As such, the Downdraft engine has a venturi of air pulling from the air on top of the carbs in the air box as a high flow direct path into the combustion chamber. In short, it's a vasty superior driving experience with dynamic throttle-response, as factory engineer explained in the video.

 

Good point and an interesting topic, true, one can modify any car.

The fact remains that the Downdraft as delivered by the factory is perfection in it's original manufactured configuration, whereas, the Fuelie as delivered is apparently only acceptable if it is significantly modified to copy the ROW/Euro Downdraft - perhaps not a bad thing as imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

The bodywork of the Fuelie needs to be modified front, sides and rear involving a not inconsiderable amount of work in time & expense. A Euro front bumper with grilles & lights needs to be sourced & fitted, as do rear lights & badges. Bodywork and paintwork ensues. If the job is being done properly to mimic the Euro-look and corners are not being cut, side-markers will be removed and the ROW/Euro rear exhaust valance will be substituted. Every conversion I have ever seen of a Fuelie has left something to be desired in terms of completeness.

Alas, after all the modifications, it'll still have the emissions-conceived less-potent Fuelie engine, and perhaps this is part of the reason why Downdrafts currently trade at more than twice the value of Fuelies, apparently all QVs are not created not 'the same'.

 

It's certainly unique.

Raymond, in the last year that I have been looking into this comparison, I have encountered a few specialists who prefer to not work on the ancient Bosch components used for the Countach circa 1985 to 1988, their sentiments are that as they age they become less and less reliable and are prone to any number of problems. By contrast, the old-school Webers are durable, simple to tune & maintain.

I should say that one reason that the Downdraft is revered in the USA is because many people detested the Fuelie engine & DOT-mandated bodies these cars came with, what they all really wanted was a European car. One such person was Edgar Kaiser who refused a USA/Canada-spec car and instead went to elaborate lengths to get an order accepted through the Belgian concessionaire so that he could get the pure European Countach Downdraft, which he picked up himself at the factory. He then proceeded to drive it around Europe so he could import into Canada as a used car. Anything to avoid the emissions variant.


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Allow me to illustrate for your viewing pleasure some of the many components that will go wrong with the Bosch Fuelie system

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More than that, I personally know of four (4) that have come in from Switzerland alone in the last @ 3 years, and another two (2) from France however I also know of two (2) that have left the USA, so in balance I'd say there are around 25?

There must be almost 10 x more Fuelies.

Great questions!

I don't think I've owned any Countach more than 3 years, I confess I easily get bored and I'm a bit of a revolving collector. There have been 3 different LP400 Periscopas (beautiful pure shape but the cockpit was too small for me), 3 different LP400S S1s (a bit too low for my liking), 2 different LP500S, 2 different 25th Anniversarios (nice build but after carbureted Countachs the Fuelie engines left me uninspired), and 2 different Downdrafts, one of which I still have, the Mimran car. It may sound like a lot of Countachs, but mind you this is spread over 30 years. I feel a book titled "My Countach Life" coming on

I've already owned the Mimran Downdraft almost 3 years but it is in no danger of departing so it'll easily surpass the others. Without exaggeration, it is the best and most important Lamborghini I have ever had the good fortune to own (I consider it more special than even say, the ex-Shah of Persia Miura SV I owned), and considering the story of how I came to own it (which I have already shared) and how it lead me on a journey to it's original owner, the man who saved Lamborghini, this one has got my attention. But if there is ever one thing that really bonds a man to his machine, it is when you take it all apart and embark on a full no-expense-spared, last-nut-and-bolt restoration. Having done that, and considering all the aforementioned, I cannot say if I'll ever sell it.

I will never own another Fuelie car personally - with the exception of conveying one for business purposes upon specific request, but even that is unlikely.

 

Mike, read the wording of my post again - humor, something Countach owners need more of.

BTW, those 44 DCNF Weber carbs as you've illustrated are (in the words of the great James May) things of utter wonder & beauty.

 

They have stood the test of time and will be maintainable forever as they are durable, and easy to service.

Personally, I think it was a stroke of genius move on Alfieri's part to go back to the Downdraft carburetor application last used on the Miura, it ensured a tune-able, potent and long-lasting specification, not to mention a truly unique one.

Automotive brilliance.

 

The ex-Gerald Carroll JLA12397 in London's Mayfair today @ JD Classics in great company

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The ex-Nuccio Bertone Downdraft HLA12147 in Modena, this car still has it's original P7s on it with less than 2,000 miles from new on the clock

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Awesome examples of both the Downdraft and the 365 BB, honored to have played a part in sourcing these and delighted to see the home they have with you, meanwhile the notion that these cars foul plugs or are difficult to tune is a complete fabrication.

 

My son examining the canvas image of the Mimran Downdraft today on Dugan's Bordeaux Wall of Shame

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GLA12927 today, the difference between aluminum and composite as viewed in original paint, see the weave on the hood

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Beautiful professionally-cleaned original Paratelli-upholstered seats from the same Downdraft,
apologies for the poor-quality cellphone image, in person they are really nice for 32 years

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