Musings on 330 GTC Values

Like many of you, I'm guessing you have seen the car Sheehan is selling:

https://ferraris-online.com/pages/carintro.php?reqcardir=FE-330GTC-9939

I have no affiliation with Sheehan or the owner of this car, nor am I a potential buyer (or seller) of this or any other GTC. That said, it looks like a nice car. I'm guess it is a strong #2 car. The current ask is $539k, which is a slight reduction from the initial price.

This got me to thinking, which is always a dangerous thing, because I sold #9881 for roughly $200k at Keels and Wheels in May 2008.I had brought for $90k from a local collector who had brought it from a Portland lawyer to use in the New England Rally. I loved the car. Somewhere in the dusty electronic archives of FerrariChat there is a write up I did on what it was like to drive it. Like any vintage vehicle, the car liked a set line without surprises. Turning into a corner, it would understeer followed by oversteer. It was a hoot.

But I sold it because it had a lot of needs. I would say it was a #3-- car. It was making strange noises, and I didn't dare look at the quarter panels for fear all that was holding them up was the paint. Hell, I even had to double clutch to upshift into fifth gear. It needed everything, from paint to engine to transmission to transaxle. My guess was it needed at least $250k of work to be a good #2 car.

Comparing apples to apples then. My car, #9881, was a $450,000 #2 car in 2008. Interestingly enough, when I put $450,000 into my handy dandy CPI calculator I get a current value of $523k. Ironic, huh?

My point is it appears we have gotten to the point with Enzo era Ferraris where the real cost is the cost of restoration. There aren't many people left who can do this kind of work and most of them are busy. This means when you buy one of these cars that has already been restored, you're looking at a time bomb before you will have to spend a good chunk of the original cost in getting the car restored again. Not many of you will be like Malcolm who is willing to drive his Daytona or 275 to hell and back again, regardless of the cost. I'm afraid it also means many of these cars will end up on a pedestal. Once restored, their days out in the wild are over. Given the limited supply of restored cars, my guess is they will get more and more expensive.

Your thoughts?

Ps. The current owner of #9881 is here on FerrariChat.


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Wrong forum section.

 

A 330 GTC is not vintage???


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Yes it is, but you appear to put fair amount of emphasis on its/their "values" , which IMO makes "Vintage Ferrari Market" section more appropriate for such "musings".
Mods must've agreed ?

 

Sad, but probably true.

 

Okay. I didn't even know this forum existed. Don't get down here much.https://ferraris-online.com/pages/carintro.php?reqcardir=FE-330GTC-9939

Ps. You guys don't chat much do you?

 

Interesting calculation, but I think you're looking at it the wrong way.

First of all, the value of the car has never been determined by cost of car + cost of restoration. I would guess your GTC, in the condition you sold it in back in 2008, would fetch $450k easily today. And, as you point out, someone would still be looking at $200k+ if they want to restore it, or maybe not.

Secondly, I think this mania about how your "new" vintage Ferrari needs to look "new" is sort of ridiculous. I suppose I understand that someone paying $500k for a car expects it to look like a $500k car and not some 45 year old used car, but that's just not how I see it. I like the idea of the history, where the car has been, the story that each dent or tear tells... but that's just me.

That is not to say that the cars aren't expensive to operate, or that you might not have had some big bills coming due, or that you should cheap out on maintenance or fixing things. But you don't have to do a $250k restoration to have a nice driver.

 

It depends. 9881 had a lot of needs, just to be a driver. I’m guessing $250k was a low number. The current owner is on here, but I’m not sure he would want to chime in.

At any rate, while the Sheehan car appears to be a deal, I doubt we’ll see GTCs trading much below $500k again. The cost of restorations is too high. Sadly, I’m guessing fewer and fewer of these cars will be owned by enthusiasts. I’m just glad I got to experience one while I could still afford it.


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You are probably right about future values. I don't know about the comment about fewer being owned by "enthusiasts." If, by "enthusiast" you mean someone of average means who buys a car cheap and puts their own sweat equity into making it nice then yes, that's probably true. That ship has sailed. But I don't think that's the only fair definition of "enthusiast."

There are still enthusiasts around, as I would define it. Last summer, I saw a 250 Lusso parked on the street in my little beach town on the Oregon coast. The owner came out and hopped in and drove off. I'm sure he was on a lengthy road trip, since I only know of one Lusso around here, and this wasn't it. For that matter, the Lusso that I know of around here is also owned by someone I would describe as an enthusiast, and who drives it regularly.

 

My definition of enthusiast is someone who digs the car and likes to drive it around. Collectors, on the other hand, are managing inventory. My concern is the window for owning Enzo-era Ferraris by enthusiasts is closing because one by one the collectors will pick off the best cars.

 

I don't know that I agree with you, at least in the sense you are talking about. I can't imagine anyone buys a 330GTC or a Lusso without the intention of driving it. Now, it's likely part of a multi-car collection, so they're not going to be driving it every day, or every week, but I have to think that they wouldn't put up with the hassle unless they wanted the driving experience.

Did you read the interview with Steve Cohen about his art? He couldn't say what pieces were hanging in his office right now, although he did have strong opinions on what he liked... maybe he's the sort of collector you are thinking of:

https://dealbreaker.com/2018/06/unlike-his-philistine-staff-steve-cohen-likes-round-art/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-01/steve-cohen-talks-cryptically-about-point72-art-at-moma-party

 

I don't have a collector bone in my body. When I was a kid I brought baseball cards for the gum and traded away the cards. So I don't understand why anyone would have more cars than they could reasonably drive. That said, I'm guessing anyone with a half a dozen cars or more is collecting for collecting sake. As these cars get restored, for a lot of money, to a #1 or #2+ condition, I'm guessing a collector will not be driving them much. I realize in the past, GTCs were not that high on collector's radar screen, but as they approach seven figures maybe this is going to change. I hope not, but I'm thinking this is the incoming tide. $500+ or so will probably be a bottom for GTC values regardless of what the economy does. It doesn't matter to me. At 65, even if I had the money, I wouldn't spend $500k on any car. I just hate to see enthusiasts get priced out of the market.

 

I only own 5 non-daily driver cars, so I guess I'm an enthusiast rather than a collector!

 

Getting back to topic, does the Sheehan car represent a bottom for a #2 car, or will values fall further? Remember, I’m talking about a “good old car,” not one with needs or platinum at Cavallino.


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I think so, but also a direct sign of the current market/year in affiliation towards it.

Example: 2014, "peak" I bought a non-runner '67 for $265K, and put about $30K into it. Running and driving, it was a #3 car, but in great condition, it just needed lots of Italian tune ups. It was/is a "good old car" as you say, owned by one gentleman from the mid 80's until it's revival. Sold for $625K a few months after putting it all together (the business did).

His car's probably a solid #2 car, and reflects the current market.

 

FML just discussed one which was bid to, I think, $550k and didn't sell-- but probably should have. So that seems to be the price for a "nice old used car" 33GTC.

 

Thanks, haven't read the FML in years. The Sheehan car is now $539k. I think it started at $550k or something.