Countach QV FI Thread

Good post ,could be better, could be worse, fair enough, at this point the game is fair,both engines with similar factory headers and no cats, let the Modding begin,if you like .
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Completely agree with this, there's no doubt that the DD engine responds better to certain modifications such as cams, valve springs, etc.

In regards to your recent re-acquaintance with the DD, I feel that perhaps your new perspective may be slightly skewed by the very cool but "hot" motor that you have in your car. Although sport cams, sports exhausts, etc. are a factory application with your particular DD, your motor isn't the average "standard" configuration. Throw some extra gaskets under the 44s, bump the timing, and suddenly all of those parts are working in conjunction to make a strong motor. All very cool stuff, but not a very fair comparison to a standard motor, especially since yours has been meticulously gone through in recent times.

Comparing two DD motors, the motor in JLA12100 has had the benefit of higher compression, reground cams, angle milled heads, and a slight bump to 5228ccs through the use of thinner (but much stronger) liners. JLA12111 is mostly stock (MSD & Ansa - no cats), but has also been lovingly maintained with no real budget. While both motors are very strong, it only takes one blip of the throttle to feel how much quicker the motor spins up in the former car, safe to say it pulls much harder and for a longer duration.

As you noted earlier, the driving experience and performance in your Anniversary was similar to the DDs which you had experienced at the time. You even felt that the car had a smoother delivery and could pull with similar vigor given comparable exhausts. I think your opinions are completely justified given that you enjoyed a NEW example of a DD in period.

I'm sure that if you compared your current GLA12997 to your former DD the differences would feel obvious. So to compare your car to an average Fuelie or JLA12100 to a Fuelie LM would be unfair, of course it's going to feel much stronger. But in standard formats I've always felt the differences are more minor and more to do with power band traits.

Both cars would have the same exhaust systems, it doesn't get more equal than that.

 

True - but it doesn't get more original than the DD and non-original than the FI. They're no longer what the factory made (well, the FI isn't) so you're not comparing the two in their original condition - which makes comparison a moot point.

 

I said *COULD* be - you seem to take that as gospel that it will be and is. Stop reading into things and read what people actually write. Chris has the same issue - takes a few words out of context and then considers them "facts".

 

here we go, also why bring up the fulie stock exhaust? The point og this argument is similar headers and no cats.and loss of Us bumpers.

 

Are we back to this? Ok, lets do Swiss dd to fuelie comparo.

 

In other news. I drove mine today.

Was pretty F-In awesome. Been a while as been busy on other aspects but she fired up right away, drove carefully until good oil and water temps. Then the loud pedal was pressed a bit.

Come on guys, we all own one of the most exciting cars on the planet. Period. Whatever the configuration. Get out there and enjoy them!

Rob

 

I'm sorry - I was never informed of the point of the argument. All I've seen is yelling and screaming from the FI crowd that the DD has more power and they weren't happy - I didn't see the official rules of the discussion.

 

Why not compare the fuelie to my M3 then? Both fuel injected so should be a fair comparo yes?

 

That is a fine looking machine!

Spaceship springs to mind. Love it

 

I think the Downdraft is different, but if you want to say better, that's okay with me.

Well-stated.

Perspective, it's a great thing.

3 years ago Bob Baffert said American Pharoah was the greatest horse he'd ever trained.
This year Bob Baffert said Justify is the greatest horse he's ever trained.
Two statements, both entirely true, based on the time they were made.

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Oh stop whining, we are all big boys, you choose to come here for no reason other than to rumble, as Ray Leonard says, don't fake it if you can't take it

Never will.

Also, I don't believe those Bosch fuel-injection units operate at anywhere near optimum today

Similar is a big walk-back from the same as, but it's heading in the right direction

Thank you for this balanced & thoughtful post.

You are right I am a bit biased, and furthermore, you are also right that it may be because of the engine GLA12997 has, or maybe I have forgotten what it was like to drive a well-running Downdraft, in the late 80s I was not as experienced, astute or appreciative as I am now.

That said, anyone who knows me will attest that I am a very matter-of-fact guy who calls it as it is at that given moment.

As time goes by, with our cottage industry of cars being restored, we are co we are databasing a lot of infiormation, such as the difference in the pistons and cams (below).

For example we have independently confirmed what DaniT shared with us:

Downdrafts camshafts are part numbers:
1220848
1220847
1220845
1220846

Fuelie camshafts are part numbers:
1221851
1221852
1221871
1221872

Has anyone calibrated the differences between the cams of the Fuelie & the Downdraft, and assessed the relative performance differences?

At some point we'll have a detailed report on the differences authored by a qualified engineer.

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M3 (all variants) have EFI. The "Fuelie" Countach had K-Jetronic mechanical fuel injection. Apples and Oranges....

 

Hahahahaha all in good fun

 

Good point

 

Joe, this is silly,no better, no worse.parts are made to work with differen inductions, one is not Kryptonite,while the other is cast iron,get it? There should be diff part nmbrs, pretty sad if they where not

 

Or the dd to a Ford 1972 17 m

 

Duude,something is going on in the rumpeslikker departement.

 

But carbs and FI are fair to compare? lol

 

Sadly, all of this is putting me off buying a Countach at all. I thought the Ferrari owners were bad for their bickering over which car is better, and they're worse than the BMW M crowd who are like a bunch of kindergarten kids...

 

24 hours off for Nils. Go read something from Hemingway, maybe about the Pilar.

 

The perpetual argument is about the delta in performance/desirability/etc. of Downdraught Weber Carburated 4 valve Countachs vs. the Bosch K-Jetronic equipped version.

The EFI system in the M3 is obviously the superior injection system to the K-Jetronic type.

 

Does anyone know where this car resides now? I know it went back and forth a few times, always liked the look of it.

 

Not to mention 40 years newer, twin turbo... and yes, I get that it's to compare the differences between the 2, but now I've been told that it was to compare the differences between the 2 if you make modifications to one and not the other, which is ridiculous. I thought people would be happy to have these cars not be bitching about who can mod their to make it the fastest.

 

I am sure I saw that one posted a couple of months ago - from memory he said he was trying to sell it on eBay (was posted in a thread here) and if that didn't work he was sending it to Cats on consignment but the eBay listing ended and I've not seen it pop up on Cats. 99% sure it was a black on black with gold wheels and gold rear badging exactly like that one.

 

Is this it?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-Lamborghini-Countach-/263610654250?rmvSB=true&hash=item3d606b5e2a%3Ag%3AJL4AAOSwyNFa09sd&vxp=mtr&nma=true&si=ZSKyL8ZPrrYYoyTviInFa1i18A4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557