My (Bob) Norwood Experience

Maybe. But honestly, from Russ's own version of events, I can imagine a judge or jury finding him at least equally culpable for the cost over runs. And that's before hearing Norwood's take on things. Russ seems to have all of this mess documented in email. I certainly hope so, and that it's not just recorded in the "diary" format we have here. Otherwise Norwood might have HIM in court for defamation.

Bottom line - It's one thing to take a stock Ferrari into a garage and say "fix this clutch" or "perform a major service". The scope of those things are mostly clearly laid out from the start. But taking in a basket case project that was sold off on eBay sight unseen, when he doesn't even know exactly what stuff came with the parts car and what didn't, or how the car was set up, etc etc, and then saying to a mechanic, even a top rated mechanic with experience, "fix this"...I don't know how one can reasonably put a cap on how much that will cost to accomplish, if at all. An estimate is an estimate, it's not a guarantee. Even with a regular service stuff pops up that can swell the bill big time.

Had I been in Russ's shoes, the minute I saw the car was not what I'd bought off of eBay, I'd have put it in storage, and tried to get the deal reversed. How does he sue the seller of the car at this point? He's altered it significantly.

As for Norwood, $85 for an email? Charging to have have a few guys push the car from one end of the shop to the other? Thanks but no thanks. I'll take my business elsewhere. If you continue under those circumstances, I don't understand how you can be "shocked!" when you get a bill that far exceeds what you expected it would be, estimate or not.

Also, Russ continued ok and add jobs to the work order. "Let's do this, let's do that" or "I'm going to have this done by this other guy, or find this or that part myself, then you install it". Common or not, it's too messy to take before a judge and expect a clear win, IMO.

There's an old expression, "Just pay the $2". Doing a project like this, and trying to micromanage it both financially and otherwise, is a doomed pursuit. At this point, trying to get his money out seems like an equally doomed pursuit. Move on.

 

Let's change this a little bit and say I want a kitchen remodeling.

I hire a contractor, who comes, sees my house, proposes a plan, gives me an estimate for $50K.
A year later, I don't have a new kitchen, and the contractor refuses to finish the kitchen after running the cost over run to $100K, and will not let me fire him without making me sign a release of liability for all the bad wiring jobs, plumbing connections, and uneven floor that he has done.

How many of you would sign the release and walk from the kitchen remodel?

Eff that, for sure.

 

I don't see the need for analogy, this one case is messy enough. But what you're describing happens all the time, and at the end of the day, right or wrong, it's often cheaper just to move on. Lawsuits drag on FOREVER. And that forever costs about $400-$600/hr. And then even if you win you rarely get a 100% judgement in your favor, meaning you get awarded a portion of what you asked for. So now you've "won" partial reimbursement and racked up another $30,000 in legal fees. All so you can have a stroke and mutter as you lie on the floor, sensing the smell of burnt toast... "I won."

Sweet.

To be clear, taking Russ's version at face value, Norwood looks very bad in this story. Whatever Russ's faults or mistakes, Norwood comes off as a guy who overcharges, forgets or reneges on deals, and worst of all for a mechanic, doesn't know his stuff. Whether or not any of that is true, or the whole story, I genuinely feel bad for someone that gets upside down and underwater on a car, which should be a fun thing. My main points here are - I don't see any way for Russ to come out of this ahead or even, but I do see a way him of maybe not getting himself into a situation like this again.

 

Also, you live in California...and I know from experience that contractors there are under massive scrutiny and liable for nearly every mistake they make. In NYC your scenario makes more sense.

 

“The screwing You’re getting isn’t near the screwing you’re going to get”.
lawyers and law firms get involved and this is going to seem like a bargain.

 

I would pay him, sign the release, take the car, and either pay someone else to correctly finish it or part it out. You dont want to sell it as-is given the liability release you would need to sign to get it.

 

If I am mistaken on dollar amounts, my apologies, but did not think we were near a $100k yet. Only if he pays the $78k does he get into that ball park. I say you might recoup $30 parting out, but at this point the engine may have issues?? So it becomes a serious push if you pay the $78 total, sign release and then try to part it. If you walk away now, no more payments, bills or cash out of pocket, I think you are at same approximate money and no more heartache/expense/exposure.

Please correct me if wrong.


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I might have misread, but he said he paid about 50k for the car on ebay, plus paid/agreed to pay about $50k to Norwood at the end of the day, which would come to about 100k. Norwood wants 78k , so that would bring it to just shy of 130k by my math. Bonkers for what this car is, but fighting it in the courts? I think the best that can be hoped for there is he'll get his car back. So still 100k in, plus legal fees would bring the total higher. So either way I think he's looking at a 120k+ car at this point. The options seem to be - A) pay Norwood the extra cash, sign release, and get the car, or B) pay a lawyer instead, maybe get the car, maybe a small amount of money returned (but Russ tacitly agreed to most of those charges as things went along by paying the bills as they came in, minus adjustments made at the time, so hard to imagine he can get much back after the fact), and maybe no release but the case would then already be adjudicated, so I don't know if he can expect another bite at the apple to get some money back as well, plus that would mean more lawyer fees. or C) Take it to court, pay lawyer, and LOSE, owing Norwood the full 78k plus legal fees.

Essentially seems like a free roll for Norwood at this point. Russ's point of leverage was staying publicly silent and preserving Norwood's rep in exchange for the car, and this thread kinda eliminates that bargaining point.

 

Wow, I had no idea he paid $50k for the car on Fleabay!!! My apologies. That is a stinger then.




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Does Norwood want another $78k or just the delta to get up to $78k? I think I may have recalled that part incorrectly based on the above.

 

Also storage fees.

 

Believe it is the delta to get to $78.


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The delta is what I was thinking, and is a relatively small number to end the matter and get the car. Cheapest way forward and still have something to show for it.

 

If Russ wins in court surely he claims his lawyer fees back from Norwood.
Courts are the place to go as long as you KNOW you have a super strong case.

As an aside, I got sued by the builder of my house in Florida for breach of contract. He put a lien on my house. Went to court and MY lawyers fees were $100K.
I won the case as I always knew I would and was awarded costs plus my lawyer fees.
His company was put into bankruptcy and I never saw a single cent of the money.
Oh. and he is still trading ripping off people even now under a slightly different name!
Can I say his name on here? Oh well why not.
Aaron Guess of Chronus Construction Inc now trading as Chronus Construction LLC

 

This thread is open and searchable on the internet by anyone, not just FerrarChat members.

Surely Bob Norwood knows it exists.

And it should make selling this project interesting for anyone who chooses to Google “Russ Gould Ferrari”.

Heck, it should make finding the next lawyer a bit more challenging!

Matt

 

I had an issue that while not a project like this was a situation where the estimate and scope of work blew way out of proportion very quickly. But it’s how the mechanic handled the situation that keeps me returning to the mechanic.

I had a 3/4 ton work truck that needed new transmission lines. Took truck in and the next day I get a call. The steel lines had fused to the aluminum transmission casing and the boss where the lines screwed into the transmission case cracked. We discussed the options and since the transmission was so much to replace and used transmissions for a case were nearly impossible to find we opted to try to weld the cracked area and re tap. Ultimately the transmission still leaked a little. A replacement transmission was seriously as much as a used 1/2 ton truck so I opted to sell the truck to a friend (who was aware of the minor leak and issue that had transpired) and buy a 1/2 ton truck to replace the 3/4 ton truck. The mechanic only billed me the original quoted price since the repairs didn’t work. I told him so long as his costs were covered I would agree to that payment option. The guy didn’t have to do that but to retain me as a customer he broke even on a deal so that I wasn’t unhappy. He certainly didn’t have to.

Just recently he repaired My wife’s mini van and found shoddy work the dealer mechanics had done when replacing a head gasket. He showed me the extra work needed and told me the extra costs involved AND expedited the work so my wife was only without her van for one day. Again with the extra work he certainly didn’t have to do that and by all rights could have charged me extra but didn’t. Never had any weird re-occurring charges on my invoices either. I use this guy for everything that is 5 years old or older, and he has done fine by me. He also helps me find other reputable mechanics if he don’t have time to repair my vehicles in a reasonable amount of time.

Basically sure the op probably was uneducated about what he had, and what was involved but Norwood being the go to guy on these conversions should have pretty spot on knowledge as to what these conversions and shouldn’t undershoot the estimate by this wide of a margin. Even I can tell within a reasonable amount what anything I normally do will cost just by looking and if I have ever underbid because I miss something I’ll eat the costs, but that doesn’t happen often and if it does it’s not by a lot. I imagine Norwood missed a lot and bid low to get the job and was using the “I’m Bob Norwood” approach to secure the work.

 

Well, sounds like you are headed down the path of litigation.
Nothing left to say except “ happy trails!”

 

Sounds like you should put your own spreadsheet together and go through these yourself to seperate out what you consider legitimate charges versus repeat charges or silly charges (like time for looking up a part). Why would you rely on him to do it at this point?

My two cents as posted earlier is that your cheapest way out with lowest net exposure is paty the delta, sign the release, get the car. Cheaper then litigating. Cheaper than abandoning what you have after you either part out or fix and sell.

 

Just got a chance to view your console photos.
My word, what a bunch of hacks. Wouldn’t let these individuals change a tire on my Chevy Pickup.

 

If the rest of the work looks like that console, I would tell Bob to just keep it.

 

Is this the before pic or the after pic?

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That console looks awful, what an abortion. Tell me that is not the "after" pic. No one could be proud of that rubbish.

 

You gotta litigate the hell out of this. You can't possibly let this moron get away with this, no matter what it costs. You will win and get your attorney costs back (if he doesn't go bust on you).