Costa stepping back... | FerrariChat

Costa stepping back...

Discussion in 'F1' started by classic308, Jul 12, 2018.

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  1. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    Apr 2, 2005
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    LaCrinoid
    It is slightly curious.
     
    Bas likes this.
  2. nietoale1

    nietoale1 Karting

    Dec 28, 2012
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    Alex Nieto
    Is the MB team starting to crumble from the inside after last weekend? Very interesting...
     
  3. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Intentional or incompetence?
     
    NEP, stavura, DeSoto and 4 others like this.
  4. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    :D:D:D
     
  5. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    Jack-the-lad for the win!!
     
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  6. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    crinoid likes this.
  7. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    intentionally incompetent :)
     
  8. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Bring Costa back!!!..on the other hand, we seem to be doing ok
     
  9. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Sep 12, 2004
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    The purge has begun.

    Having lost their superiority, I guess Toto is thinking that their creativity has gone stale. Looking to re-create the conditions that lead to their domination, maybe he should revisit the engine side of things.
     
    jgonzalesm6 likes this.
  10. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    The main reason they’ve been so dominant was being able to develop their PU well in advance knowing the specs well before the others thanks to Ross Brawn. Thankfully they’ve already played that card and if there was a new PU to be introduced Ross would be the last person to trust having a say on it! ... Or, .... wait a second!?
     
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  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    How did Ross Brawn knew the coming engine régulations ?
     
  12. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    Major shake-ups have to happen when the dominance diminishes. Every company, I don't care what it is, has managerial shake-ups. We'll see if the new leadership is favorable but I actually expect MB to be on the back foot now with this for the next couple seasons with this. It would be monumentally impressive if MB came out of this next season with a WCC, but with major shake-ups like this it is not common anyone fares all that well the following season. Shake-ups create a lot of dust, but the desire for new blood steering the ship to new ideas is required.

    I expect they realize their aero and mechanical concept is hitting a wall. This concept was developed by Costa/Willis/Lowe etc and they need to move on to something new to be competitive. That's how F1 goes. Gosh I miss FastIan in this discussion...

    Costa was Byrne's right-hand and is by all accounts a mechanical genius, and is indeed a large reason why Mercedes was so dominant for so long so no one can suggest he was incompetent. I expect placing him in a more hands-on position may be better for now, but also don't be shocked if Ferrari try and snap him up again.
     
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  13. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    #14 DeSoto, Jul 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
    He didn't know: Mercedes put pressure on FIA to make them approve the regulations Ross Brawn designed.

    About these changes at Mercedes, well, maybe it's just what it looks: those guys are old and want some rest. It would be silly if they got crazy and started firing people. They still are winning races and are in the fight. What they did expect: winning forever?
     
  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If I remember correctly, Ross Bran wasn't working for Mercedes after 2010 when he sold his stock to them.
    He was just a small shareholder until 2013, with no say in the company.
    If he wasn't working for Mercedes, who was he working for to design régulations?
    Because Mercedes did quite well during the first 5 years of the hybrid era, there has constantly been conspiracy theories trying to explain that, by saying they had "Advanced knowledge" of the forthcoming regulations..
    Now, this Ross Braw "trail", I am not convinced at all. If I remember rightly, the 2 parties left in disaccord.
    Brawn wanted to stay at the helm of the Mercedes team, but Lauda and Wolff were sent in to oust him out.
     
  15. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    #16 DeSoto, Jul 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
    Brawn was the boss at Mercedes till 2013. He had plenty of time to work in the 2014 regulations.

    Bernie E said that Mercedes knew before the others the new regulations. As Bernie says lots of BS, I thought that this was just another conspiracy theory. But later, Montezemolo said something like "now I know why Mercedes were so stubborn when they proposed this set of rules". It was because those were "their rules". Add this to the continuous threatens of quitting F1, their "secret" tyre test, and Bernie saying that he was grateful to Dieter Zetsche because he helped with his problems with the German law, and you realize that when the rules were approved Mercedes had a huge political power.

    Actually, I'm not blaming them. The others could have been as stubborn as Mercedes and played politics as well. It's part of the game. Unfortunately.
     
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  16. Tifosi Ferrari

    Tifosi Ferrari Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2017
    410
    To have this type of domination last this long from one of most power pu will require huge development push, money and large amount of time. I definitely think Brown had a hand Merc will probably needed at least the end of 2011 for them to develope plainly. Also shareholders do have a say in companies obiviously look at Ron being shut out for example cause of shareholders. And with Brown's influence on the team I definitely think he was important.
     
  17. BMWairhead

    BMWairhead Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2009
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    You mean the inline four cylinder turbocharged engine that the FIA was trying to push through when virtually all of the engineers said a V configuration would be much better from a packaging standpoint. Adrien Newey was at the front of that line with a bull horn..


    If Mercedes read the tea leaves and started development, so be it...but everyone knew where the formula was headed.

    Renault had more to do with fashioning the regulations... threatening to quit if the NA V8s we're kept. After they got their way, they fell asleep.
     
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  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Apart from Mercedes, the other players (Ferrari, Renault and Honda) entered the hybrid formula with their eyes wide open..
    I read at the time that the hybrid formula ensured that Renault would maintain its participation in F1 at a time when his CEO, Carlos Goshn who has never been a fan, was thinking of pulling out.
    As for Honda; they were apparently quite enthusiastic about joining in too.
    It's really the token system that took many by surprise and stalled development.
     
  19. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    IMO; they all missed the boat by a long shot, if they ditched a four cylinder turbo design to have a V- instead.
    A 4 cyl. vould be more compact and easier to package than a V6. You can put a 4 cyl. in line in the chassis, or transversal behind the bulkhead, or you can lean it by 90° in line or across, etc ... Less exhaust pipes to insulate, etc... It would have been smaller, lighter, simpler, etc...
     
  20. BMWairhead

    BMWairhead Formula 3

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    The argument was that a V configuration lends itself better to being a stressed member of the chassis. They (Adrien N) argued that the four cylinder would require a larger subframe and would limit potential aero innovation. In hind sight, that doesn’t sound bad.
     
  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, I'm not convinced ...
     
  22. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Mercedes and Ferrari wanted the V6 for marketing reasons mainly. But the critical point in the new regulations that Mercedes was really pushing was not the number of cilinders. It was the MGU-H, and its ability to provide electric power WITHOUT limitation. That was the point that everybody missed and that Mercedes got right from the beginning. While Ferrari made a smaller turbo to improve aero, sacrificing electric regeneration, Mercedes did a very complex design with the compressor ahead of the engine (something that requires lots of money and TIME to be reliable), because they knew that it would be worth it.
     
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  23. Kenny Schachter

    Mar 18, 2024
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    Kenny Schachter
    did you ever deal with Christiano Luzzago in the end? thanks!
     

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