2014 Italia Getrag gearbox with shifting issuses

Speed sensor $10 part on a $30,000 Gearbox

 

I have a 2013 and it's been the first one I've driven. I find that it shifts clunky sometimes, and sometimes on downshifts under power it feels as if it slips for a second or 2 then pulls. I have always been concerned about this gearbox but I thought 2013 didn't really experience the sensor issue or other issues. I suppose right before CPO runs out I should get it to the dealer for them to look over.

 

A New Power Warranty may also be a good idea.

 

oh my....how much will a repair job like this cost? I asked my SA about it last week from ferrari LA, he says it's still a 25-32k repair bill. Getting my wallet ready i suppose

 

Seven or eight years ago that would’ve been the approximate cost. Given what’s known about these transmissions today, the cost would be just a fraction of that. Others will chime in with more specific details I’m sure.


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yes that's what i read from the forum as well...but my dealer SA denied that to be the case. So if the repair is indeed much less costly, we just have to make sure we go to the right person/place....

 

Quick question--who supplies that sensor and where would one go to purchase a replacement?

Thanks Tony for sharing!

Ant

 

It’s likely they don’t have a mechanic trained to do the repair, in which case they would either remove and replace the DCT with a rebuilt or new unit. I know that boardwalk Ferrari has mechanics that rebuild them, and it is a fairly lengthy and intensive process.

It’s my understanding that these speed sensors are direct from Getrag and only supplied to authorized repair centers ( dealers) but I don’t know this for fact. In any case you would have to have someone replace the sensor that is very familiar with the removal, disassembly, and has the appropriate computer to reprogram and bench test the repairs. And I believe the DCT repair from Ferrari includes a 12 month warranty on the repairs.

If you have the new power warranty or remaining warranty or the extended warranty this repair is covered, if not it could be upwards of 30k if replacement is needed for a multitude of reasons. I have however seen repair bills from dealers that are qualified to replace the sensors in the mid 6k range but it’s possible the price could be more depending on dealership. There are extensive posts in the california section as the DCT seems to have failed more in the early california then the 458 and they share the same DCT with the 458 and FF.

Good luck with your repair.

 

Just a heads up. I rebuild these units at my shop. There are some serious design issues that arise with age. I can tell you for certain, the gear box oil needs to be changed regularly. I have analysis attached of a 2011 California with 21,--- miles and it has significant bearing wear material as well as a lower than normal viscosity level. Attached is the gearbox and clutch reports. The internals have 5 sealed (HNBR) bearings that leak out the grease and leak in gearbox oil. Then they over heat and start developing fine iron ore powder that covers everything, and I believe is responsible for a lot of the electrical problems. The bearings cannot be bought anywhere as they are special for high rpm, high temp, submerged in fluid. i have replacements for 4 of the 5 bearings. The fifth is a bored out of standard size center race, so custom made only by NSK for Getrag. I currently replace the seals off of a new non bored bearing, disassemble the bearing, thoroughly clean it, and us SKF LGHP grease which is made for high speed, high temp. I follow the NSK regreasing guide, for high speed applications found online. I also have all seals for the gear box. EVERYONE, including the special double seals. Total cost to rebuild is $18,000 with speed sensor, temp sensor, all seals, CCP and SAP.
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I recently had my 458’s engine oil, clutch fluid and DCT fluid replaced. I’ve asked my mechanic to have them all analyzed by Blackstone and will have the results shortly, which I’ll share with the audience.

The car has 35,000 miles (that I know of), is a FL car, and is frequently tracked - on other words, it probably represents a ‘worst case scenario’ for wear and tear on a high performance car. I change oil frequently but until now not DCT or clutch fluids.

Anecdotally, IMO the extreme heat is a potential killer of the sensors and now I open the rear hatch after a spirited drive or track session. Especially the spiders do not dissipate heat fast enough.

To date zero problems, but I’m aware that eventually I may be looking at a repair down the line. So be it - I do not have the extended warranty.

For the record, I run Red Line race oil, Shell clutch fluid and Motul 300 75w90 gear oil (you can’t get the recommended Shell Spirax S5 anymore). Motul’s specs most closely match that of Shell based on all the research I’ve done.

If anyone’s interested, PM me as I have enough clutch fluid for one change in the 458 ( takes around 9L). I bought a 20L bucket in bulk and can dispense into 5L jugs.

 

Interested to see the results but I can imagine it'll only be much worse than this one. I just serviced a 50k mile 458 and I of course sent it off for analysis.

Fluids I use: redline oil, 10w40 or 20w50 depending on the driver. Motul DCTF and 300V 75w90 LS

 

Looks like we are using the same fluids……..

I’d be happy to share my data.

In your case, the decrease in viscosity suggest a reduction of Viscosity Index improvers or a breakdown of the esters.. I cannot opine on the high iron and silicon, but your data would seem to indicate DCT needs to be changed more frequently as opposed to being viewed as a ‘lifetime’ fluid.

We should encourage the Fchat community to have this analysis performed when changing fluids as it would establish a database for change intervals and provide an idea of the health of the mechanical components…….and is not at all expensive to do. Blackstone charges $40 per test, for instance.

 

The fluids in these tests were the factory fill fluids I removed. And the viscosity of the dct fluid is lower than the gearbox fluid and I believe leak through is happening through the shift rods. As to the DCT being low viscosity, well, I would have to agree, viscosity index improvers do fail, they are essentially rubber-like expanding macro molecules that operate in a very specific temp range. I hope the new fluids, being PAO and Ester based, have a much flatter temp to viscosity curve, and require far less of these VIIs, so hopefully we'll see better results on the samples I take from those fluids.

IMO small fluid samples should be taken of the DCT and the Gearbox oil at every oil change to monitor the internal health. The Ferrari manual says to top off these fluids at each oil change, I have begun sending analysis at each oil change to prevent catastrophic failure due to increased bearing wear, as a lot of these parts are not available for purchase and if you break a gear, Ferrari suggests you buy a new gearbox for $40,200 as even they cannot get a gear. I do have a spare california box with parts if anyone needs them, but I bought it for $6k for replacing a burnt gear, so the parts won't be cheap to help me recover those costs, and i would not sell the sealed bearings from this, because they are junk. I do have replacement options for anyone that needs them. I do agree the fluid is not lifetime. If you pull the data sheet on the shell 75w90, it only hadls a 4 year shelf life if unopened so I can't imagine 10 years of hard use would be good. The iron content is coming from the bearings. This is what the inside of the sealed bearings looks like. And you can see the light green color of the seals of those bearings from fluid and grease going in.

In the attached photo, the cage of the installed lower bearing is black, and the one in my hand is new, so you can see the color difference. All that black is fine iron ore that coats all the gears and increases end loading on the teeth of the gears as well as increases the temps.
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I had the power warranty and lost all odd gears w/ 6k on the clock. Ferrari said the box was toast and footed the bill for a new one installed, to the tune of $40k!

 

Translation: our techs gave up trying to figure it out. Did they let you keep your old box? I'll buy it from you, get it working and make a video about it.

 

no