How are opinions developing on the 812 design - poll

Thought it would be a nice idea to poll views from the forum about the 812. Looks like it will be the last fully n/a V12 without hybrid. The reception at the start was lukewarm in some quarters but that is often the case. Most will now have seen the car in the flesh, probably in various colours and with the picture thread running for so many pages, all sorts of specs and designs. So what do you think? If it is the last V12 non-hybrid it will go down as a classic whatever, but does its design match its likely place in history?
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Loved it from day one.

 

Still a TDF fan. 812 rear end looks overweight


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I wasn't sure about it at the beginning. With time and exposure I find myself thinking: that looks really good! I still think the F12b is prettier. But I think they had a very difficult task with the 812 and they did an overall good job.

 

Its been downhill since the 599.

 

I love the 812 design. The most beautiful to my eyes is the TDF. F12 was an improvement to the 599 IMO...


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Same here.


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Buddies of mine regard it as fantastic. They are not car guys and hence its a very objective opinion.

 

I liked it at the beginning but a little less so now. I am not a fan of the direction Ferrari is taking with the long front light clusters - it does drive very well though from what I could gather during a few laps on track

 

Looks like an elephant is sitting on top, and still that clunky new steering wheel. Corporate Ferrari, not PF.

 

Not a fan of the exterior. On the other hand, I like the modern design on the interior of the current models. Nothing wrong with the previous interior, either. I'm okay with both the old and new steering wheel.

 

Lukewarm at the beginning, love it now. Can't say I am a fan of the wheels in the pictured cars though.

 

It took me time to arrive, but I disliked the F12 when launched, and I now know Ferrari design needs to be devoured, and that in my eyes, it takes time to understand. So then I got to love the F12. I was the same with 458 and 488. The TDF for me was excellent, even if I find the front end a little cartoonish, the vented rear shoulders I think are amazing. But the 812 is also lovely, I guess we all need a step back in aero needs to get real beauty, Porsche , Aston, Jaguar just put a table at the rear of the car, ugly as hell. I think the 812 is a great Ferrari , F12 too, TDF sexy as hell, and any of those three, will, going forward, in say 20 years, be a car you wished you owned or still owned.

Hell any Ferrari V12 is a privilege to own. I own and love the V8 cars, but for me , the V12 is the real deal. It is another level, the authentic real Ferrari.

The V12 is Ferrari. You never have to explain it. It is a V12 Ferrari . End of.

 

The 599 is a classic. The F12 looks better and better and is a classic as well. The F12’s curves are some how subtle and veluptuous simultaneously. The 812 does look better in person than in pics however will not be a classic. The design isn’t harmonious and the multitude of slits, vents, and ducts take away from the few details that had they been set up to pop to the eye would have been brilliant rather than detracted from and lost in the noise. It doesn’t really look like an Italian design.

 

Absolutely.

 

Not to pick a fight...seriously....but I loved the 550/575, 599 ok but just didn’t do much for me, loved the F12 and, in person, starting to really appreciate/love the 812. But I do think it’s very color specific like many modern Ferrari’s where as the old ones could damn near be in any color and be absolutely stunning. My 2 cents

 

The poll percentages have been steady for a few days now as votes have added, with just over 60% saying they love the design, around 15% or so saying they really don’t like it. Would be interesting to know if Ferrari designers would be pleased with that result or disappointed - I can imagine designers liking the idea that people had a strong reaction to their work, either positive or negative, rather than ambivalence.

I must say I quite liked the 599 when it arrived but it looks a little big and bloated to me now - the F12 got the size much better, something which the 812 inherited. I loved the 812 from the start but I saw it in the flesh before I saw any pictures, at the Maranello customer preview, where they showed it alongside its predecessors. I still love it, although I can understand why some dislike the rear of the car, especially from some photographic angles. When I see the car in person it just always looks great. I don’t understand the elephant comment, unless you just mean ‘big’ but then it is not bigger than 599 and similar size (and less weight) than the F12.

I also don’t think that whatever anyone feels about its appearance, that will materially affect its classic status. Many classics don’t rely on being the most voluptuous for their value - 250 California v 250 GTO as an example, or Testarossa v 512M, or Countach v Diablo, or 911 RS, RSR, 930 Turbo etc. I think that what a car represents and its rarity drive classic status more, so long as the look is pleasing enough and is in keeping with why the car is special. For me, the 812 scores on that front - its significance is in probably being the last standard production n/a V12 (if true, think about that for a moment - it’s history right in front of us. Enzo believed in n/a V12s and made road cars out of his race cars and engines to fund his race team. That’s the essence of Ferrari right there and 812 could be the end of that direct line).

Of course, it won’t be rare and the forthcoming VS will be a hyper-space car in terms of value for the same reasons as the 812 plus added rarity. But the 812 looks to have some great significance and as the last of this long line, having a design that involves high-performance engineering in terms of powertrain and aerodynamics, seems appropriate to why the car is significant. I think it will be remembered really well in future years, and the fact that it drives brilliantly, even better than the F12, will also be a factor.

 

When the first Geneva pictures of the 812 were published I disliked straight away the looks of the rear sections and what appeared to be a poor integration in the rest of the car. The more I looked at the pictures of that rear taken from different angles, the more that discontinuity became evident and I even wondered if there was more than one team involved in the design of the car. Being aware that pictures can give a wrong perception about the looks of any vehicle, I saved my final opinion for the moment when I would see the 812 on the flesh. In the beginning of this year I had the opportunity of contemplating at my dealer for quite some time a grigio 812, extremely well equipped, and my first general impression was that it looks much better alive than in the pictures. If we imagine the 812 standing on top of a compass and the front end lying at the 0º mark and the rear end at 180º, to me the car looks fine from all the view angles between 0º to 90º. From the 100º angle moving towards the rear, to my eyes the 812 looks a completely different car and is quite evident the lack of design integration that exists between the rear section and the rest of the car. Apart from these aesthetic aspects which to me are relevant enough to put me off the 812, I acknowledge it has a superb drive-train and from the driving experience point of view certainly is one of the best GT's of all times.

 

Can't decide. I love the simplicity of the F12. The 812 looks great in silver and grey but some colours look like they sit on the 812 whereas the F12 just wore every colour perfectly.

The 812 side profile with the aero bridge makes it look muscly etc but I was attracted to a smoother silhouette.

I think it will age well but it kind of reminds me of the 365 gtc4. Sometimes it looks great but sometimes it doesn't depending on your mood. The 275 gtb always looks great.

I don't think you can get it 100% right each generation. But it also leaves the door open to the competition and I think the DBS superleggera is stunning. It captured everything the 812 is missing design wise, not performance but do you really need to track the 812?

It's a wired little niche the 812 is in as it can't go too gt because of the lusso and it can't be too sporty because of the 488.

I think the designers also had to leave some stuff on the table for the tdf version which will be spectacular.

 

Just some thoughts to share.

I've met several automotive designers, names you might know, but they would all say they don't mind when someone doesn't like a design, but they really are bothered if people are ambivalent about a design. They want to spark an emotional reaction in the viewer- and yes, it could be negative. I think they would rather have you love their design of course.

Ferrari has many smart people. I am sure they knew the design would cause a little bit of a stir. Yet with this there are a few things to consider. First, among us here, we are the enthusiasts, and that is both very good and also fraught with traps. One of those traps is we lock on to things we love about something, and we think it should always be this way. But, the world keeps changing. As they say: change is the only constant. We, the enthusiasts, tend to look backward. (maybe not all of us, but most of us, and I would include myself in that group- after all, when something is good, you want more). So, the second point is while we tend to look backward, Ferrari has to look forward. Whether it was Mr. Ferrari building a car for a new racing spec, or now, they have to design for changing regulations or simply changing tastes, that is their job. And they have to do it in a way that brings as many of us along. Third point is related: they have to design a car that doesn't just look good the first time you see it, and then becomes dull. It has to be evocative always. These are really tremendous missions, and in recent times Ferrari has really done a spectacular job.

I'm not so sure I buy the "last of" argument. We simply don't know. They could mate this engine with a hybrid system for the successor, and then its still NA V12. Yes it would then become "assisted" but what if the driving experience is even better? Also, even if it's true the 812 is the last NA V12 unassisted from Ferrari, its still a production car. I don't see the 458 Italia being advertised as "the last of the NA V8 production Ferraris"- they seem to be depreciating a little bit more gently than the F430 at this time in its life, but the F430 had to deal with the great recession, and I think the 458 is benefitted from being a real next generation product. I think the DCT is a big difference. On the other hand, maybe the 812 really is "the last" and I would agree that can't hurt its future value. But that doesn't change the fact that the 812 is the most incredible GT type car I've ever driven. I was really impressed with my all too brief drive (about an hour and this proves time flies!). Bravo Ferrari!!!

I don't think you need to track the 812 to really appreciate its performance. Of course, having a derestricted road where you can really enjoy the power, sound, and handling of these wonderful machines is very nice. But the "secret" of modern Ferraris, at least in my opinion, is they drive so well on the road. They allow you to actually harness all that power and ability. Can you imagine RWD 800hp in another marque? You'd be spinning the tires or flashing the traction control light the whole time. It would be very frustrating. With Ferrari's brilliant integration of these systems, almost all the time you will simply turn that power into massive forward progress. That's really impressive.

But does any of that matter for the 812's design? I originally wrote "Nope" -- But maybe it does. When I look at it now, I just really enjoy it. After I drove the car a few weeks ago, my goodness, I really loved it- not just really impressed with the technical side, which I was. Somehow Ferrari gets into your blood. I can tell you this experience affected how I see the car. Seems to me that's the point.

(and I think that would be in keeping with Mr. Ferrari's thoughts that race cars aren't beautiful until they win.)

 

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I can't stand this elitist idea that if someone disagrees with a "designer" they have something wrong with them, or "looking back."
Designers lead into the future....BS.
Pontiac Aztec is more modern than a Ferrari 250 SWB, or the venerable G-body 911...but is complete garbage...like most American "designs."
Italians aren't infallible either.

The F12 is a superior, more harmonic design to the 812...yes....in my opinion.
My opinion about it is just as valid to me as some skinny-suit weird-ass eyeglasses "designer," in fact, more so.

 

No one ever said something is wrong with you if you disagree with a designer- or anyone else. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I agree with you that the F12b is prettier and more harmonious than the 812. But that doesn't mean the 812 is without merit. I disagree with you that its some kind of "elitist" concept to think designers, especially at Ferrari, know what they are doing. The results speak for themselves.

 

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I've seen and looked around 2 now, and I can't get over the sweeping line from the bottom of the front fender up the door to the top of the rear fender. Reminds me of a Hot Wheels, in a bad way. A step backwards from the F12 and not even in the same realm as the TdF.

Visually, since 1997:

TdF
550 Barchetta
550
575M
F12
456M
599 SA
575 Superamerica
599 GTO
599xx
599
GTC4 Lusso
812
FF
612

 

I think there are some broader underlying trends that need to be taken into consideration and that can be summed up by the way F1 is going. Christian Horner said f1 needs to decide if it is going down the path of entertainment or technology. This season has been really boring with no overtaking due to the high technology nature.

Ferrari prices have reached truly crazy prices in the second hard or "classic" market and now there are no more entry points for enthusiasts. Therefore it has become a luxury object not a performance object ie for under $100k you can buy some much better alternatives and people don't build a relationship with the brand through ownership.

With uber and the way ownership of cars is going than the performance and technology aspects will matter less and less and the entertainment/experience should be higher hence why something should be more beautiful even if it looses a couple of tenths of the track which is against the fundamental nature of racing. So all the extra technological advantages won't bring the price premium anymore as people value that less and less as you can't brag to your mates about lap times as less and less people care or have the comparative context to even know what that means.

Old race cars have become beauty queens on the lawns not performance standards. Battle scars are turned into concourse perfection.

But if something is beautiful than there is always a premium on that as it can move more towards art rather than luxury. Hence why the competition may be slower but more attractive and people start building the relationship with other brands.

But at the end of the day if it sells than who cares