No need to waste my time anymore with a rude person like you. Just like Greg King said “Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Now maybe u will agree, that at least, in the current times the values are not what they were 3 years ago?) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Damn....no wonder my phone's been going crazy with notification chimes lol Shamile Freeze....Miami Vice! Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
At the end of the day; regardless of when we bought/buy-sell/sold our trs/512 , we shouldn’t fight about valuations any more. We are all so blessed to own or have owned/driven our favorite car; enjoyed its sound, quirks and beauty. A lot of ppl love her just as much as us but for some reasons will never have one and get to experience the joy it brings to fullfill that dream. All i can say is I miss my TR and i look forward to having a new one soon and am truthfully thankful for this forum where i have now met 3 great guys in the flesh and received tons of great advice from long time members such as melvok, turbo joe, tim 308(?) . Truly loving it! Long live the trs Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok you've said some interesting things over the last few weeks about TR value but I have to strongly disagree here. Absolutely not. Anyone bidding on a car at auction is absolutely considering the cost of a 5-15% buyers premium on their bidding practices. To imply that the buyer is NOT considering an added cost like this and these premiums should not be added to the price of the car when considering its significance on sales data is just unreasonable. Your comparisons to the seller's costs are wrong. Just like a seller might put extra money into a car in order to sell it, any costs to the seller as a result of a sale are not part of the market trend data. However, a blatant markup as a result of an auction are part of the market trend data. The owner will be paying taxes on these buyer fees: this total is what he paid for the car. That is the price. PERIOD.
By the way, did anybody else notice the high percentage of high-end cars at Mecum where "the bid goes on" (i.e. not meeting reserve)? Seemed quite high this year
And that means somebody is willing to pay that much for that car elsewhere So if you buy a car at a dealer that it is consignment then you need to ask the dealer how much they marked it up and deduct it and that is the market value according to our local FA. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fernando- Per my example from last night: "So, I buy Microsoft at $100 a share. I pay a $1 commission per share. The Nasdaq will now quote the current price of MSFT to now be $101 ?????? Of course not.....it is still $100.00 Pure and simple" Guys, you are not understanding my point. I said the VALUATION of the car is $70K. Another buyer/seller does not care what you pay in auction fees, doc fees, sales tax, commission fees, DMV charges, titling charges or any other BS charges. All those incremental charges are BASED on the $70K valuation that the seller/buyer agreed to. Some buyers have to pay 6% sales tax....others have to pay none. Some buyers pay an auction charge....some pay none. If I have to pay $2K to ship my car home (vs the guy who can drive it home if he lives near by) do I add that to the valuation as well? No, of course not. The car was "valued " by the marketplace at $70K All other charges, costs, fee's, BS noise are not fixed (they are variable) across the spectrum of buyers/sellers. But one is fixed.....the VALUATION of the car. Let's please drop this issue going forward. No way in hell I'll ever agree with your assessment and it appears that you will not agree with mine I'd offer to kiss and make up but I'm not into guys
Speaking only from my perspective, I bought my TR at Barrett Jackson last year. Personally, I always knew that 10% was going to be added to my bid. I always factored that into my bid since that was hard cash out to me. Cash is cash.
Of course 10% commission must be included in market value data. it is not 25,50 basis points or 100 basis points, it is 1000 basis points!!!! The difference between a stock purchase in an exchange is that you cannot purchase that security privately. But a car you can and the market value is dictated by the demand for it and if that demand is willing to pay X (including fees to a third party, could be a dealer or an auction company or whoever) then it must be factored in. Otherwise why all these websites state 48.4m instead of 44m?? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Of course the buyers premium is a factor. Take it to the extreme and pretend the premium is 1,000,000%. That would certainly change things. Even 10% is pretty significant.
OK guys in that case let’s add ALL of the fees that we also have to pay in addition to the price of the car. Because of course the buyer has to factor those in as well when he is considering his purchase price. Cash is cash, correct? Let’s factor in 12% auction fees, 6% sales tax, 1% DMV fees and $1800 in shipping fees . Magically you now have a car “valued” at $85,100. Hmmmm, well we’re at it we might as well factor in the fact that we have to pay insurance and possibly store the car somewhere as well. So let’s add another $4000 to the number. Congratulations, you now have a car “ valued” at $89,100. And you better hope your wife doesn’t want to stop at Tiffany’s on the way home from the auctions well you are in Monterey.
Think you should add as well an extra $35k in the first maintenance that the buyer thinks the car will need, so truly the car is worth well over $125k.... I’ve been quiet, but agree with you. Price is price. Transaction fees are transaction fees. Same applies for house purchasing, for example. no one quotes a house price including stamp duty and other taxes. It’s just the way it is. Cost of doing business (which can affect the price, yes. But price is one thing and fees are another) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dude, we get it. You want the world to perceive the car as valued less so that you can buy your Miami vice dream car as inexpensively as possible. Let it go.
Why are u guys still arguing? LOL This thread started 10 years almost ago when the trs could be found in the 50k’s and even now they are not as strong as 2/3 years ago; they still command a nice 90k. It is a special car for sure but owners, naturally, see it as even more special than what the market currently dictates...Its totally normal; its like someone criticizing ur kid, none of us would like that. Those are beautiful, simple throwback 80’s car which can only be appreciated more in time. However those are niche market cars as ppl tend to not appreciate the lack of comfort, convenience, power, power steering and lack of speed... All the youtubers seem to car about those days are 0-60 times, big wings, exhaust that throw flames and showing off cash This is a timeless piece for connoisseur which is sometimes unfairly treated by crazy non owners or owners mentioning outrageous maintenance cost which quite frankly are reasonable..Try a mp4/12 c early gen and u will see the tr’s cost are not that bad; or better track ur carbon fiber 430 scuderias and u will find the price of a new diff on the tr to be easier to swallow Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Please tell me what is the difference between a dealer markup price in a consignment and an auction buyers fee?? Because I assure you that the price the dealer sold the car is what is shown in the market value data. And housing is different because the one who pays the fee is the seller, not the buyer. Whatever happens after that (taxes etc) DOES NOT count I agree completely, but whatever cash comes out of the buyer when the hammer is down does. The issue with a car sold an auction is that regardless of the type of car, for that short period of time the supply is perfectly inelastic (a perfectly vertical line) Image Unavailable, Please Login , the supply is fixed or unchangeable regardless of a change in the price, there is only ONE car. And demand for it will increase the price accordingly, and a 10-12% markup is factored in the market value data, which lets not kid ourselves auction value is NOT always the same as market value so many factors can influence an auction price (i.e. ego) But still there was a buyer willing to pay X for that car (auction fees included) and that will set a precedent for future sales. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
