Wires On Starter

I have an '87 328GTS that I've owned for 31 years. For the past year I occasionally have gotten only a click when the key is turned to start. Repeated attempts eventually would turn the engine over and start it.

I have put the car on my basement lift and am about to remove the starter to have it fixed at a local starter/alternator shop. But as I began the removal process I noticed that the wire that attaches to the spade was very dirty when I pulled it off the spade. The spade itself was covered with some sort of crud. The other three wires at are attached with the 13mm nut were clean. I have cleaned the spade and single wire that attaches to it and the starter has functioned properly for 6 starts in a row. I'll continue testing over the next day or so. If the problem re-arises I'll remove the starter and take it to a local shop.

My question is what is the purpose of the singular wire that attaches to the spade? Could this be my problem or is the fact that it is now turning the engine over without a miss so far only a coincidence?

 

Thank you Steve and Mike for the advice. I'll check everything that was mentioned out.

 

Well the starter working properly was a coincidence. It is acting up again today and only clicking at times. The connections on the battery are good and the battery is new. I turned the headlights on and turned the key. When the starter turned the engine over there was very little headlight dimming implying the battery connections are good.

Next I'm thinking about testing the starter in situ rather than removing it and possibly saving myself some effort if the line from the ignition switch is the culprit. I have a ground switch on my battery so I can disconnect it from the car very easily. I can open the connector that is near the starter underneath the car (+12V always hot) and remove the spade connector from the starter. I have a spare battery so I can attach that to the connector underneath the car, ground the negative battery terminal to the engine, and run a wire to the spade from the positive post of the battery to see if the starter works properly every time I touch the wire to the positive post of the battery. If it works every time then the problem must be in the line that feeds the spade on the starter.

If it still fails to work at times, then the starter comes out and goes to the shop.

 

I performed the test mentioned above but realized I could leave the car's battery hookup in place but only used the spare battery to supply +12V to the spade connector on the starter. All I got were clicks each time I made contact with the spare battery. Several more tries using the ignition switch finally turned the engine over and started the car.

Looks like the starter comes out and goes to a local shop. The problem appears to be in the starter, not the wiring to it.

 

This morning I removed the starter, held it by its flange in a vise, and tested it with a spare battery. It worked every time while out of the car but of course there was no load on it. How should I perform a voltage drop test? Should I check the voltage at the hot pole on the starter while someone turns the key to start? Ditto for the spade?

 

I'll get to it today. As I read #3 I realized that I never cleaned that connection. I only cleaned the spade and the one referred to in #2. Will clean it and do the test as recommended.

 

The testing will be done tomorrow. Wife will be the one turning the key and she has jury duty today. Starter is back in car. It has started three times in a row but it has done that before. Will report results. Thanks for help Steve and Thorn.

 

Performed the testing. It was a little difficult because I'd only get a flash of voltage readings on my digital meter but it was easily read so I'm wondering if the test was valid.

All three readings were dropping to between 5 and 7 volts when the starter turned over. It was starting very quickly so now I realize I should have grounded the coil wires so the engine would not fire and the key would remain in position III for a longer period of time.

During the testing the starter never failed but as soon as I decided to take the car for a drive, it failed several times in a row.

 

I've been driving the car so it's too hot to work on now so I'll get to it tomorrow. Is it possible to remove the solenoid without removing the starter? I noticed some countersunk screws on its end and from looking at them on line, it appears to me that that is all that holds it on. I'll also redo the voltage tests with the FP relay removed. Don't know why I did not think of that. I checked the battery terminals and noticed the ground side was not tight. And I was the one who replaced the battery earlier this year. They are both cleaned and tight now so a retest is in order.

 

Redid the voltage drop tests with the relay removed. The starter spun the engine each time. Here are the results while spinning engine for a few seconds:

1. 9.68 volts to the solenoid spade
2. 10.5 volts to the always hot side of solenoid
3. 10.5 volts to the wire going to the motor taken from the wire and not from the bolt as requested.

With nothing cranking the voltage at the always hot terminal (2) is 12.7 volts.

Is it possible to remove the solenoid without removing the starter or do I need to remove the starter again to get the part number?

 

We have a reputable starter/alternator repair shop nearby so I think I'll drop the starter off on Tuesday. I would never have been able to remove the solenoid in situ because the three Phillips screws have red Loctite on them. I've gotten rather adept at starter removal/installation from all the practice I've had in the past week.

I'll report what the shop does.

 

Since I cannot take the starter to the repair shop until Tuesday I removed the solenoid and put a little lubricant on the moving part where it slides inside its cowling. It makes a nice snap now when I touch it off with a battery. But I also noticed that the motor also runs at a slow speed when I only energize the solenoid. Is this normal?

 

I took the starter to the shop this morning and had it checked out. They checked the solenoid, brushes, and operated it numerous times. I was told that it is excellent condition. The problem is not the starter. While talking with the tech I mentioned that the voltage on the solenoid was 9.5 volts. He said it should be higher.