Is Hamilton one of the GOAT F1 drivers?

Facts are facts and its never happened before or since.

Bottas is nowhere near Hamilton as a driver .4 of a sec is a huge margin. Hamilton is in another league.

 

No, that win at Monza was better strategy and Seb screwing up. Seb being a doofus does not make Lewis "better." Also Pirelli tires went to crap. When is Ferrari going to get it right? Seb could have let him by and then stomped him under DRS or without using all the "tricks" and clear power advantage.

Also, going into the gravel at the Lesmos like everyone was doing was just dumb. Every time you had to crawl back onto the track you stressed the left rear tire and practically gouged it on the the hard edge of the asphalt. Stupid. It also would have been better to have a set of mediums.

No Lewis is not a GOAT.

 

Hamilton is one of the GOAT...one of them...and maybe the best one racing in F1 today. He wants it more than anyone else. That makes him pull the most out of a car and out of a lap that he can. Nothing else matters, not his hair or his clothes or his personality not his friends. All that matters is that he works harder than anyone else on the grid today. I want Ferrari to win...but not just get lucky. The Ferrari car is the best on the grid right now. But the team and the drivers are not.

 

+1

 

If you had said, “No Lewis is not The GOAT”, I might have agreed with you. But anyone who refuses to acknowledge that a 4 x WDC (and this applies to both Ham and Vet) is not one of the best of all time is just thinking emotionally and not rationally.

 

Definitely, positively, Elton is no way the GOAT, and he isn’t even top 20 as far as I’m concerned. If you asked us is his car the GOAT, then absolutely


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I agree, Elton doesn't make it into the top 20..neither does Seb....

 

From the body language it was very clear that Rosberg was the #2. The cheers when Lewis overtook Rosberg at any point in any of those years. The exact opposite when Rosberg was ahead of Lewis.

For me, Lewis is not the GOAT and never will be one. He's been beaten too many times by too many teammates in his prime.

THE GOAT, the absolute very best one, is Schumacher. He obliterated his teammates in his prime. They looked like amateurs, frankly. The amount of races he had where he was completely untouchable, especially in cars that weren't the best, is astonishing. Lewis? They're now talking about his Monza victory being ''his best ever race''. I'm sorry, what? With DRS he could only just keep in touch with Kimi, and only when Ferrari completely fumbled the strategy and Bottas acting as worlds best moving chicane did he have a hope in hell passing him. Come on. Either the delusion is enormous or standards have dropped very, very low. It was a good race, for sure. But his best? That'll remain Silverstone 2008.

Sure the pole statistics will come into play again...what that doesn't show is that in the Ferrari Schumacher years far fewer races where driven (3 to 5 races a season fewer!) and Ferrari frankly had some form of competition. Mercedes, only starting this year did anyone start coming into remote contention for pole.

For sure he's a great driver. But not a GOAT. That's reserved for a very select few.

For the record I don't believe Vettel is one either.

 

Maybe not on Planet Bizarro.

Back in the real world both of them are in the top 5. Hamilton soon to be the #3 of all times.

 

+1
The delusion is real lol!

 

There will always be a huge gaps between those who believe in facts such as stats, and other relying on their own opinions based on emotions.

Statistically, Schumacher is the most successful driver, so far.

But successful doesn't mean GREAT.

Greatness is something else that cannot be quantified (for me anyway).

A competitor who utterly disgraces himself at times on the track loses the right to be called great, IMO.

I consider Fangio and Clark as great, for example, but Senna and Schumacher whatever their score were never great in my eyes.

The formers were true gentlemen drivers, the formers could turn into real thugs on the track.

Sorry, but I don't like thugs...

Someone said: "it's not what you win that matters, but how you win it".

That's my philosophy in a nutshell.

 

When we look back on this era in 20 years it will be seen as the Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes dominance era the same as Schumacher/Ferrari dominance era. The difference being Schu's era wasn't an era of absolute ridiculous dominance at the same level of Mercedes which to me articulates Schu's battle mettle far more than Hamilton, which is why Schu will always be the GOAT even if/when his records are broken.

 

We know Lewis is fast in a fast car.
But we do not know what he's like in a recalcitrant dog, such as Senna and Schumacher piloted, and yet still delivered fantastic results.

Hamilton also likes to whinge when his car is less than perfect.

 

The fact that Hamilton already has won so many poles, races and championships speaks for itself. I predict that he'll continue for another two years at least, racking up the statistics. Then we can resume this discussion and it will be a slam dunk that Lewis is one of the GOATs.

 

You clearly don’t remember the Ferrari dominance of 2002 and 2004 then. Rose tinted spectacles are obviously the order of the day. And for the record, I do believe that Schu is the GOAT... and Ham is not on that level.

I don’t believe anyone is saying Ham is The GOAT - that would be ridiculous. But he would make most people’s top 10 list and many top 5s.

 

About the whingeing, these guys have a microphone and TV camera following them around constantly. They have to say something, so the honest ones actually speak their mind regarding what they feel at that moment. You call it whingeing, I call it "forced reality TV".

 

About the whingeing live during the race.

Today's drivers are live on TV, and their reactions are immediatly interpreted.

20 years ago, there were no car-to-pit radio link, and no one knew how drivers reacted to events, pits instructions, etc ...

It's a bit like comparing today's actors against screen stars of the silent pictures era.

 

GOAT is a subjective opinion,he will be remembered as one of the greats as he is rewriting the record books . If anything, he certainly is the best career decision maker of all time, gone are the days where driver bravado can overcome a car's shortcomings

 

For those who didn't live through that era, the 5 inunterrupted WDCs won by Schumacher will look exactly like total Ferrari domination.
It won't look much different from Mercedes or Red Bull winning era.
People will only have the stats to form an opinion, just like we have now to judge events of the past.
When there isn't a good mix of winning drivers and winning cars, it's fair to assume that one team had a better car, and one driver was head-and-shoulders above the rest., explaining the repeated success.

 

Ham is undoubtedly already a top 5 GOAT to me, but Ferrari weren't qualifying a .750- 1.000 second ahead of the field for some 2 solid seasons with excellent reliability right at the get-go in the most complicated powertrain formula ever with everyone constantly breaking down.

 

Refer to 2002 and 2004 seasons. Yes they were. Nobody else stood a chance. Don’t get me wrong the Schu was easily the best driver too. Fortunately it was all good as it was massive Ferrari dominance. No one ever said of the Schu, “he’s only a 5x wdc because his car was too fast in 2002 and 2004”.

 

Wasn't Barrichello on record with saying the even fuelled up the car before qualy to not make it too obvious?

 

Are you aware this is not the Mercedes F1 forum ?

 

Fully agreed.

What the Hamilton haters are missing is that they should feel privileged to be watching F1 when it is in one of its most historic phases. The fifties with Fangio were such a time, the naughts with MS and now the teens with Hamilton. In the seventy years of the sport, this is a rare time and we should enjoy it.

One major difference is that during the MS era testing and modifications were much more allowed than today. So MS' highly disciplined testing regiment (which Hamilton would lack anyway) worked greatly in his favor. As did the fact that with Ferrari there were unlimited funds. Today there are so many restrictions on everything that the dominance can no longer be so distinct. I suppose that's a good thing then again I do miss the fact that a top manufacturer could just go out bananas and create the uber car just because they could.

PS: Given the era of MB now, I feel bad for having doubted them from the beginning. You saw that from the start. Good for you, bad for me. Oh well. ​

 

[QUOTE="tifosi12, post: 146183057, member: 70"only in fa]Maybe not on Planet Bizarro.

Back in the real world both of them are in the top 5. Hamilton soon to be the #3 of all times.[/QUOTE]

only on Planet statistics ...wich mean crap in terms of driving ability!