Manual transmition in 812?

Have you driven or do you own a late model Ferrari?
The transmission is so integral to the car I wouldn't dream of touching it.
If you did you would just end up with a mess, it's almost guaranteed (just trying to add a clutch peddle for example, it's not like they were designed in and now it's a build option).
I can't think of one problem a manual solves over existing gearbox solutions.

 

Lol!!!

 

Troll alert

 

Would be worth trying to get your hands on manual 599. There are a few out there. Would be cheaper than seeking to re-engineer an 812 for a manual box. The manual 599 may present exactly what you are after - although I have read comments to the effect that the gearbox was not very well matched to the engine. I have never driven one, so can’t comment. Love manual gears and the whole heel and toe process - it is one of the most satisfying aspects of driving. And I will always have a manual as my daily driver.

However, struggling to see how the manual box would allow you to truly extract the peformance and speed of response the 812 engine offers. You gain one thing with the manual (interaction and the satisfaction of mastering perfect shifts), but in a car such as the 812 with such an engine you lose a central feature of a car with such an engine - the sheer speed of response and acceleration/deceleration.

GT3 with Touring Pack an manual if you fancy a modern car with a manual. Or a Vantage V12S with dog-leg manual (still some undriven examples out there looking to be picked up even though no longer being made)? Both very well suited to a manual box. Or a 599 manual - but subject to the comments I read about the manual just not being suited to such an engine.

 

Definitely troll, but I will bite. I am bored. Sure, old timer. You probably had a Ferrari before internet was invented too. Where were you the whole time? Why did you finally join us? And please post a 812 with manual stick shift you retrofitted on.

 

Ferrari will not do a one off 812 even with a manual. Ferrari will turn away your 2.5 to 3.5 M

However, that doesn’t stop you from buying an 812,stripping out the Getrag DCT, and then swapping in a manual box, and an old school diff, then find someone to redo the software management of all the electronic aids which are dependent on knowing gear selection and rpm and speed. Things like slide slip control, virtual short wheelbase, e diff etc.

Its’s a free world and we are allowed to play with our money and toys.

Please tell us about the adventure!

 

Forget about a manual transmission in a present day Ferrari being built by Ferrari, doesn't matter how old you are and that you have owned Ferraris before me it ain't gonna happen. The electronics are all integrated with each other that you will effectively be re-engineering the 812 into a totally different car. If you have the funds then buy an 812 strip it of all computers and ediff, SSC, EBD, add a Ford 9 inch diff, 6 speed manual gearbox that can handle the torque and hp, motec ECU for the motor , simple wiring harness for the little electronics that are left such as ABS and you are right to go with your manual 812. It wont drive like an 812 (because it will no longer be an 812) but doesn't matter as you will be happy with it and thats all that matters. Don't forget to change the shocks to regular shocks as you would have disabled the electronics for them.

As for Pagani retaining a manual gearbox their cars which are excellent in engineering terms are nowhere near as well engineered as a Ferrari and are built with different driving characteristics to a Ferrari.

 

I can understand some irritation at being called a "troll" in only 3 posts, if you were posing a serious hypothetical. However, we do not allow users to call each other "asses" and "pricks". I will allow this to be a warning only, rather than a ban, since you are a new user. I strongly suggest you go and actually read the rules you agreed to when you signed up.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/help/terms

iloveferrari - you can dial it back too.

 

Thanks. I am done now.

 

The problem is the rest of the car's electronics, as they're all tied together. You'd have to probably go to aftermarket engine management and eliminate a ton of the driver aids - they rely heavily on the electronic diff and if you replace the trans, you're replacing the diff too (as it's a transaxle) so you'd have to basically strip all of that out. Then you'd have to figure out how to get the rest of the car's electronics working without any of the drivetrain electronics. I think mechanically any decent shop could do it, but you'd need a whole team of electrical and software engineers to sort the rest of it out if you wanted it to have any semblence of Ferrari gauges/hvac/nav etc.

 

Its too bad, but many of the participants here, and I will count myself in the group, see an open ended post like yours and think you are likely looking to turn around and say something like "see- Ferrari lost its soul- no stick shift!". I think that's what happens. It's a shame.

To answer your question, while anything is possible, it's really unrealistic and would be extremely cost prohibitive to install a stick shift in an F12. It would require you to rework so much hardware and software, as outlined above. Probably even more. Then you have to account for the fact that modern Ferraris have such insane power and instant throttle response, and such fast reacting suspension and steering, that the time to clutch, move a shifter, then let the clutch engage is simply out of sync with the car. It's hard to believe if you haven't experienced it. To that end, I would say go test drive an F12b or if you can't find one, try a 458 Italia. Drive it with a little gusto for a little while and ask yourself if you think it would be better with a stick shift. I love driving stick shift, but after driving these, I had to admit it: I think they are best with the DCT. After all, the factory knows what it's doing!

Now, you might still think it would be better with stick shift. Then we come back to all the hurdles in your way. If you want a modern Ferrari with stick, I would look for either a 599 or 430- both will be expensive with stick. You could also find a nice 550 Maranello, that would probably be the least costly "new" Ferrari. By the way, the shift action in the 550 is just spectacular.

 

Okay, I apologize. I really thought you were a troll because that was your first post ever and you asked this question that now you know the answer of by the other users. The short answer is that you really should not try placing a manual into a 812.

There are quite a few mechanical reasons why cars with engine producing this high number of horse power is not working so well with the manual. I myself also like manual, thus the Porsche gt3s and gt4. With GT4, the power is around 400 and the manual is perfectly married with the engine. But then when I have the 991.2 GT3, I totally regretted it because it is very different from the .1 GT3 with PDK I had. The car was simply so much more responsive with the Rev and thus power with the PDK.

And that was just 500 horsepower, I can't imagine the 800 horses naturally aspirated engine that requires the rev to sit high to remain fun....plus imagine driving this heavy car with natural aspriated engine of 800 hp in a stick shift! I don't know about you, for me I don't think it was fun at all with the 500 hp gt3.

Plus, other really had many good point about the merchanics and electrical issue.

 

To be clear, Steve’s question (and I admire anyone using their real name as a username) isn’t whether an 812 should be converted to a stick shift, but only if it can be done.

More accurately: he asked how can it be done. He didn’t ask for impediments to getting it done.

I think it’s a great question.

Matt

 

If you send a blank check to Via Abetone Inferiore n. 4, Maranello, MO, I'm pretty sure they'd build it for you.

But a more inexpensive solution would be sticking an already existing manual and redoing the engine electronics and traction control with some Motec custom stuff or something like that. To make things easier you could delete the active differential and rear steering. You'd end with a much slower car, but manual!

 

Someone did it with a GT3RS.....if the check is big enough my guess it can be done....

 

You are right, part of the problem is the advanced traction and stability and handling systems- they wouldn't work very well if the driver could randomly decouple the engine from the drivetrain.

My thought is a car like a 430 stick might be fun- it has great sounds, is fast, and the flywheel is so light you actually have to rev match to upshift. Outside of the Ferrari world, Porsche still makes stick shifts and so does Corvette.

Another thought is go drive a 458 or F12 / or 488 812 and see what you think. You might be surprised. The whole car works very well as a whole and its a different kind of fun.

I hope you find just what you are looking for.