"Singer" 308

I'm thinking about starting a new 308 project and I would like it to be a reimagined 308, similar to what Singer design does with the 911. The idea came after I decided to rebuild a carb 308 GTS with the sprint pack, but could not source all the parts from the original sprint pack... Then I read about David Lee's Dino 246 and, since it has been almost impossible to find all those parts from the sprint pack, I started to think about the reimagined 308. I want the car to look like a stock 308 with very little concessions to the original design. I started talks to a company in Germany which produces lots of special parts for the 308, including Group 4 brakes and suspension. I don't want to work on the engine too much though, trying to keep as Ferrari original as possible, but I would love to have a special carbureted sounding engine. I am able to get 2 engines for this project. The first one is a 328, that I could convert to use 44 Webers. The second one is a flat 12 from a 512 BB. Does anybody here have any experience with a carb 328? Is it more powerful? Only top end power? Honest opinions please. What about the flat 12. I've seen a couple of V12 308's, including Nigel's blue GTS in person up close. Very impressive car btw... Anyways, I've never heard of a 308 with a flat 12 from a Boxer. Anybody here has any experience with such a project? Is it actually feasible? Or even possible? I've talk to three different companies in Europe and USA already. If anyone has any references also I really appreciate.

 

I think you’re going to need a longer chassis if you want a flat 12

 

Sounds like a cool project. Not sure about the flat 12 in a 308. I don’t think it will fit and may be impossible to service. Remember the Boxer has a clamshell for access. I would try a 348 or 355 engine, though I realize you won’t get the carbed engine. I would also add Group 4 fender flares with bigger wheels.

 

If you are comfortable with the car being worth less than it costs to build (if you ever sell it) then the 328 would not be too difficult. You could also put in a 348, 355, or 360 crank and bigger sleeves to bump up the capacity. I think Scott (SMG2) was thinking of making some carb manifolds for the 4V heads several years ago so he may have some. Modena Eng. in Oz made some years ago-- try them. If you can't find any I could get some made if there is enough interest.

 

Instead of carbs, you might consider individual throttle bodies and EFI. You would still get the sound ( I assume that's what your after) plus better tune-ability, drive-ability, fuel economy and emissions.On the other hand, I am a turbo guy. You can make all the power you need, and then some. BTW- it still sounds awesome.

 

Installing a flat 12 sounds like years of pain and an empty bank account. Carbs are vintage nostalgia and sound nice, but they're still carbs with all the downsides.

I'd either install an engine from Nick's Forza, or go the turbo route.

 

I think the OP is missing the point of a Singer.

A 964 has the body shell of any earlier 911 and can therefore be retro-fitted with chrome and early 911 details, but then use a bigger flat 6 engine that mates up easily to the great G50 transaxle.

None of that can be done with a 308.

Matt

 

I really like the project, very promising.
I would like to add another point if you want to follow Singer philosophy, you should try to make it as light as possible

 

First of all, thanks a lot for all the replies. I'll try to direct all responses individually...

 

The fender flares are in my list, but I would like them to look like the 288 GTO ones, instead of the ones from the Michelotto GR4 car. There was a yellow GR4 auctioned some years ago with the "GTO" flares. It looked amazing, although I was not a big fan of the wheels used in that car... I love the coffin wheels from the Stratos, but I don't know if it would deviate too much from the original design...

 

Thanks a lot Derek, I will keep your contact in my list. Yes, you are right that probably the car is going to be worth way less than the money invested, but It's not an investment for me. The idea is really getting the ultimate 308 Ferrari could have made. That's why me options for the engine were limited to the 328 or Boxer 12 (although from the responses so far, it seems this idea has to be scrapped...). The 328 was the last evolution of the engine for the 308 and the Boxer was the best engine Ferrari produced at that time...

 

LOL You are totally right about the nostalgia. I miss the carbs even though I know they were not as easy to live with as the fuel injection. Maybe I'm just getting old But I still want them!

 

I've had Turbo cars and love some of them, but no Turbo for this project

 

Matt[/QUOTE]

That's my goal also! I found some custom carbon doors and was thinking about the other body parts I could replace. I also was talking to a guy the other day about some magnesium parts... My goal is to get to as close as possible to 950 Kg dry. Power wise, maybe 300 - 350 HP would be enough to have a lot of fun... That Nicks Forza 308 with over 500HP was way too much... The car was not really very "drivable" at a fast pace...

 

I’m doing this as well. I have my car stripped down and the entire suspension rebuilt. About to pull the engine.

I’ve weighed all the major components. There really isn’t many areas to save that much weight other than going with full custom carbon fiber panels.

I am a fabricator with a full shop, carbon oven and CNC machines. I also looked at engine swaps but even with my free labor it is a black hole I’m not going down.

 

To "reimagine" the 308 I think you need to follow David Lee's take on the Dino rather than Singer's 911 remakes. Forget the idea of radical fender flares or major alterations to the basic looks, you can only mess it up. Adding power and lightness, that's the key and there are a lot of ways to do it. The 308 was already notoriously faster looking than it actually was so it really doesn't need a face lift. You also need to stay with the transverse V8, don't try to make a copy 288, it's already been done.

 

No response?

I think that says it all.

Well, maybe not “all” because this is really good too.

Matt

 

I'm glad to hear that. I'll keep your name in my contact list

 

Start with a Euro car and save a few hundred pounds.

 

Yes, that's what I'm thinking about doing...

 

Here's the project I did six years ago:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/77-gtb-21039-restoration.375747/

You should really look at all of Newman's modifications to 308 before you get into it.

 

Hi George, a lot of great info. Thanks a lot. I really appreciated!