Miura, the original supercar | Page 678 | FerrariChat

Miura, the original supercar

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by joe sackey, Dec 5, 2006.

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  1. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
    7,307
    Today i was 'cleaning' my external hard disk and i found this picture. I don't remember from where i've downloaded but i remember that the specific Miura is an SVJ (i don't know if it's original or not).

    I though that it would be great to post it.

    :)

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  2. P300V8

    P300V8 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2010
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    I can see it has SV chassis....
     
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  3. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    This is SVJ 4990 @ Cremonini Carrozzeria SrL

    Correct, SVJs are SVs with front & rear hoods (and other details) built with Jota features

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  4. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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  5. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    What can you see that identifies it as an SV chassis?
     
  6. Boomhauer

    Boomhauer Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2007
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    Cardinal
  7. P300V8

    P300V8 Formula 3

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    The lack of perforations...
     
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  8. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
    7,307

    Thank you Mr Sackey. Fantastic photos.

    :)
     
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  9. Lel

    Lel Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2007
    295
    Engine #30633 in chassis # 4280.

    I owned the car for a short while and took part in the 50th anniversary of the Miura in 2016.

    L-E
     
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  10. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Also P400S 3781 was converted to SVJ as reported by you before being made into the SVR. Couldn't have been a proper SVJ without an SV chassis.
     
  11. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #16936 miurasv, Sep 30, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
    Thanks. Would be good to compare early P400 thin gauge chassis, P400, P400S and P400SV chassis differences side by side if possible with pictures.
     
  12. P300V8

    P300V8 Formula 3

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    I look forward to seeing the results of your research...
     
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  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    The factory could convert any Miura variant into an SVJ, remember a P400 or P400S chassis can be upgraded, this was done by the factory. The factory made SVJs starting @ 1971 during SV production years and continued to do so even after Miura production had stopped in the 70s and beyond. When you say SVJ nowadays, most people think of the original SV chassis that the works turned into the now so-called SVJs, but some earlier variants such as 3781 became SVJs as well. 3781 came back to the factory a 2nd time to become the SVR.

    Another P400S they converted to SVJ was Lamborgini CEO Patrick Mimran's own P400S 4088, which as late as 1986 became the final works-built SVJ, albeit one built well after the production period, shown below with Mimran's Diowndraft.

    A great idea.

    Me too

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  14. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #16939 miurasv, Sep 30, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
    I disagree that any Miura variant can be converted into a full SVJ, likewise an SV as the SV chassis is said to have thicker gauge steel than earlier variants which has been confirmed by Gary Bobileff and Colin Clarke so you'd have to change the whole chassis. You can't convert the chassis to have thicker gauge steel. Are Gary and Colin wrong on this? Is it a myth that an SV chassis has thicker gauge steel?
     
  15. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2007
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    This downdraft has the closed side vents engine lid, unlikely it's GLA12997.
     
  16. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    You are right about the SV's chassis, but the factory did convert at least two P400S (3781 & 4088) into SVJs, granted some might not accept them as genuine SVJs, whilst some may argue that it was done by the factory so it doesn't matter if they had the thicker gauge SV chassis or not. If the criteria for a genuine SVJ is that it must have an SV chassis then of course those cars would be excluded. The debate about which cars are really SVJs is subjective.

    Hard to tell, and I thought this image was from the summer of 1986, but anything is possible.
     
  17. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    The early history of 3781 as far as I can make out with a little help from both Lamborghini SpA and Heinz Steber is:

    November 1968 - Factory Miura S displayed at the 50th Turin Motor Show.

    30th November 1968 - Production number 383, fitted with engine number 2511, Verde Miura/Nero, sold via Lamborauto, Turin

    Circa 1971 - Converted by the works to SVJ specification - see image below

    1974 - Brought to the factory by Henz Steber to be converted into an SVR, a project which is said to have taken over a year

    Recently Polo Storico restored it and Lamborghini SpA made this proclamation https://www.lamborghini.com/en-en/news/polo-storico-restored-rarest-miura-ever

    However, I tend to agree though that the cars we refer to today as SVJ are cars built during the SV production period from an SV chassis

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  18. P300V8

    P300V8 Formula 3

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    Marchesi told me that it is impossible to convert an S chassis into an SV chassis. I guess he should know. However it is possible to make an SV chassis look like an S chassis. If you have any particular chassis that was upgraded in mind I would be interested to know...
     
  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #16944 joe sackey, Oct 1, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
    Certainly, you cannot increase the basic gauge of the steel throughout the chassis of an earlier variant to duplicate that of an SV, you might as well just get a new SV chassis!

    So I agree with all, especially Marchesi, who indeed would know.

    What I am talking about is reinforcing a chassis by means of buttressing certain areas of the chassis of an earlier variant to make it more rigid like an SV's, and increasing the rear suspension mounting points to conform to SV dimensions, Bobileff & others reported about this in some detail within this thread a number of years ago.
     
  20. P300V8

    P300V8 Formula 3

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    I'm glad you appreciate the difference for 'buttressing alone doth not an SV chassis make'...
     
  21. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru F1 Rookie
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    Hi All,

    Will share more details in the upcoming weeks but working on documenting the very unique and special history of the "Van Halen" Miura S Chassis #4701. Recently discovered some exciting information.

    Looking for any period photos from the 1970s and 1980s. This would be greatly appreciated!

    [email protected]
     
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  22. MiuraP400

    MiuraP400 Formula Junior

    Feb 3, 2008
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    My understanding is the thicker gauge material for the chassis was introduced mid way through the P400 production and the late P400, the S and the SV all had the same thickness. Are you saying something other than that? My understanding is that the SV had additional bracing and revised rear suspension lower A arm mounting points.

    Cheers Jim
     
  23. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    Of course, no question!

    All the Miuras I owned were genuine SVs, their supposed superior chassis and other improvements was a factor in that choice.

    Essentially what I wrote in my book, but that was based on my research well over 10 years ago and I have since heard the theory that the chassis gauge got progressively thicker, I really don't know which is correct.
     
  24. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula 3
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    Mar 16, 2008
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  25. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula 3
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    Attached two photos i have of #4701.

    Best,
    Leo

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