Ferrari had several debacles in its long history and has been bailed out a few times too. It just depends what period of Ferrari history you are looking at.
Enzo was a driver originally, competed in the Mille Miglia as I remember. He drove for, and then ran, the Alfa Romeo racing squadra before forming Scuderia Ferrari.
Lewis has not been in "top" cars all his career. It does'nt matter what team you're on if you're not great, you won't win championships. Ask Webber, Barrechello etc. You can't blame Lewis for top teams hiring him for his talent. If Schumacher goes to Ferrari and win championships "he built it" but when Hamilton goes to Mercedes and win, its a different story, i'm not buying it
He has driven better cars throughout his career than anyone in F1 history. The only years in his entire career he hasn't had a WDC capable car have been 2009 and 2013 and both those cars still won races. Nico won more than him in 2013 it should be noted as well. Nico was also asked to move over for LH at Malaysia that year so this Bottas stuff is nothing new. LH's cars have been so good his teammates have won a race every year except for Kovalainen in 2009 and he sucked. And yes, I'm giving the Russia 2018 win to Bottas since he blatantly moved over for LH. As for comparing him to Michael, you don't understand what Michael did because you are likely a "new money" fan and came around when Hamilton did. It's ok, but you should just admit you didn't watch MSC methodically bring Ferrari to glory. Hamilton caught a silver (arrow) bullet on a massive rules change and has been riding that wave ever since. Toto and Lauda convinced him to make the move because of this monster engine they had in the works. Ham bought in and was smart to do so. He's still an all time great driver but if you can't see the difference between the two scenarios then I can't help you much. Funny thing is, you could probably credit Brawn and MSC for building Mercedes more than Hamilton...
You're wrong, I grew up watching Schumi, I'm a fan of his. But i also watched Lewis from the beginning. Name a teammate of Schumi who was a former champion? The quality of Lewis teammates vs Schumi's is a huge gap. I'm not saying Ham is better than Schumi and vise versa, but after watching Ham this year, i rate them Very close. And if Ham continues his form and beat Schumi's records, everybody except Fchat will acknowledge that he is greater.
Nelson Piquet, Nico Rosberg And why do you keep moving the goal posts? The two situations aren't comparable. MSC built a team, Hamilton didn't. Hamilton started off in a WDC winning car and has driven better equipment than Schumi did. Those are the facts. If you "grew up watching Schumi" then you should know this, but I have my doubts, no offense.
What Ferrari had, and Schumacher just happened to be there at the time, was an amazing relationship with Bridgestone. Could another driver have had the capability to do what Schumacher did with that relationship? Who knows . . . and that's the correct answer.
Ferrari F1 team existed before Schumi came along. I like when people say Schumi "built a team" lol. Its takes money, engineers any many other people to build a championship car/team. I've believe Schumi contributed greatly as many drivers do, he played a huge role with the success of Ferrari, but "buiding a team" is going too far. Ferrari hired him, he did'nt hire Ferrari.
A lot of the credit for Ferrari's success can go to Jean Todt, the Scuderia manager. The little Frenchman came from endurance and rally background with Peugeot, but became a fantastic F1 team leader. It's really Todt who brought in the right people at Ferrari, and made them work together. He instilled some discipline, brought new methods, wrote different protocols, etc ... and made Ferrari a credible fighting force. I personally think he was the best team manager and Scuderia CEO Ferrari ever had, even Superior to Luca de Montezemolo, IMO. Schumacher did well because he had a formidable team behind him, facilities for unlimited tests at Fiorano and strong management. Ferrari was at its best in terms of technology, development, testing, race tactics, strategy, etc .... THis doesn't exist anymore, so driving for Ferrari cannot be the same as it was then.
Honda developed that car, Brawn adapted it to fit a Merc PU and bingo, I thought you would know that ...
Sensational... if someone would have said the same about Lewis you would have told us that we "do not give Cesar what belongs to Cesar " or how we dismiss the achievements of the driver because he still needs to win in that car... Facts is that Schumacher, Brawn and Todt worked close together to turn the lame pony into a race winning thoroughbred. Lewis did one year in the Mercedes waiting for the new formula with the superior PU to arrive. Unless you want to tell me that Lewis designed the PU that was the fastest and most reliable from test day one you can barely compare what he did with what Michael did. Lewis signed a piece of paper to get the superior car, Michael worked his ass of in Fiorano to get there...so yes: Michael actually earned that car, Lewis was just around the right place at the right time just like Vettel. But again with Vettel you guys agree on that but with Lewis you wear your blinkers... Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
Oh our veteran LH fanboy chimes in. No, obviously you missed the point entirely. Brawn F1 was a shoestring operation with no budget. Then the Merc money came in and they hired Michael and Rosberg. When the FACTORY Merc F1 team was in its infancy, it was Brawn and Schumacher there. I thought you would know that. You could say he did a lot more of the leg work on the actual ground floor of that team than Hamilton. Again Hamilton had zero to do with Mercedes rise to power in 2014. Zero. Zip, zilch, nada. Look, I know you hate Schumacher...you're English (another big shock). So predictable.
Ferrari before Schumacher and Brawn arrived was a laughing stock. They hadn't won a title in 20+ years. MSC showed up and demanded that Brawn come with him and the rest is history. They built the Ferrari dominance of the 2000s together. Slowly, methodically, under what was many years of stable rules. Schumacher's work ethic and talent was unparalleled. Yes I am well aware Ferrari existed before Schumacher...what I'm talking about here isn't a complicated concept. No offense, but you come across as very young, which leads me to believe that, again, you came along to F1 after LH's arrival. Which is OK, but don't lie and say you were some big MSC fan. All you do on this forum is defend Hamilton. It's pretty transparent. Have a good weekend Sorry, but that's wrong. Schumacher raced with Goodyears from 1996-1998 as the team was being built up and the successes started to roll in. In his second year, 1997, still on Goodyears, Ferrari was already a world championship contender. Same with 1998. Ferrari joined McLaren and Williams in running Bridgestones in 1999 and they all had them through the end of 2001. By the time Ferrari's main rivals switched tire suppliers in 2002, MSC had already brought Ferrari countless wins, 3 WCCs and 2 WDCs, the last in 2001 in absolutely dominant fashion. It was about at that point that Bridgestone said hmmm yeah let's focus on this team, but MSC had already turned Ferrari into a force of nature. It should also be noted that running Bridgestones cost MSC an 8th world title in 2005.
Ferrari finished 3rd and 5th in the drivers championship the years before Scumacher came. Well above midfield. So they were not a "laughing stock" as you describe. If you think Schumacher is the best always and nobody will surpass him, so be it. The difference with me is I watch F1 to witness driver greatness, i have no problem with drivers breaking records, and surpassing previous drivers.
Come on then, where were the championship wins for the previous 20 years.... ferrari had been a championship winning team, a fighter at the front, but then they became just another team, just another pair of cars, they weren’t winning regularly, they were going nowhere fast. The team brought together for 1996 was on purpose, the BEST team for the job in hand, rebuild ferrari, develop the car and get championships in Maranello again after 20 years of failure..... Michael was the lynchpin, without him, ferrari would never have achieved what they did, he had the work ethic, he had the team building skills, the people management skills, the desire to do it. Elton has never, and will never, do what Michael did, and his achievements will never surpass that of Michael because he is simply not good enough. Put him in a bad car, he’ll get ‘bad car’ results, put him in the best car, of course he wins. Michael made bad cars win, and good cars dominate. Forza Michael, keep fighting You, my friend, only exist here to argue and rile pro-ferrari fans, you twist and turn never admitting you’ve lost your way purely to try to upset the balance of the forum, everyone here sees it except the few other posters similar to yourself that enjoy the same. I don’t care, your opinion is your opinion, I’ll correct you when I can be bothered, but think what you like.
It's pointless to have a discussion with people who treat Ferrari as a religion and Schumacher as the Messiah. Of course the Messiah was perfect in their eyes, and accomplished miracles nobody will ever match. It is blasphemy to examine the Messiah's career : he is the BEST forever.. Also, any other champion since the Messiah has gone, is an imposter of low caliber and with no merit. We know the tune, it has been told, repeated and hammered on this forum so many times. Unlike in the Messiah's time, any successful driver nowadays only succeeds because he, or his team, cheats. No other team should have the right to challenge the Scuderia Under threat of damnation. That's what some people acrtually say here !!!
And before its claimed my quote was racist/sexist/anythingest, hitting the nail on the head is a well used, well worn English phrase and has no connotations, only exactly what it is
I maybe wrong, but I was under the impression that William was not a big Hamilton fan initially, so maybe you along with Sid n co, flying in the face of his Hamiltons achievements have changed that. If so good work..
You are right there. I just find all the attempts to devaluate Hamilton's importance in this sport, and his achievements really despicable. My nature is always to side with people injustly attacked, and defend them. We will probably never get to the bottom is the hatred I feel in some of the posts, but we have to fight it.
