Engine out service

I can’t imagine why. About the only thing you REALLY need an SD for on a 355 is the set up the clutch on an F1. I can’t think of anything you’d have to have it for to do an engine out. What reasons did you hear? There are many engine out threads on here to help you along with the work. Good luck.

 

Needing an SD would only be required if a CEL came on due to a sensor left unplugged or a loose ground or something like that. Being a 96 it has obd2 and codes cannot be cleared with the use of a scan tool. So I would just be really sure and do a thorough look over to be sure nothing got missed and you should be ok.

 

Which codes can not be cleared with a scan tool?

 

You do not need a SD to do a major service. There are a bunch of guys on here who have done many without it. Yelcab and Taz come to mind off the top of my head.

 

Correction-"OBD 2 codes cannot be cleared without the use of a scan tool."

 

An SD should be used when replacing a clutch. An SD is not required for a major service. The tool is mostly a diagnostic tool but it has many other function such as actuator centering (F1 cars), airbag fault clearing or clearing faults of other systems such as suspension ECU faults. Without an SD, you can not clear airbag, brake, or suspension faults.

 

Although Dave and I are onthe same page usually I would go further to say that if you know what you are doing an sd is not required for a clutch change and bleed.
That being said if you do not use one you can not set the wear.

I know this because fast cars had an sd problem when they changed the clutch on my car and that was 7 years and many miles ago and it has worked flawlessly for all these years.

 

Grant, the new closed clutch position is to be set to equal self calibrated closed clutch position. That value is used to determine wear, but more importantly, it's used in conjunction with PIS.

I think you (and others) are getting lucky with a new clutch that is extremely close in thickness to the old.

Matt has compared values with myself and Dave Fienberg to see if perhaps they are extremely close from car to car and they are not. IIRC, we noted a 3mm difference accross a small data sample.

 

So what are you saying would happen if we did not get lucky

 

The PIS may be off and the car will respond accordingly.

 

I haven't used the SD to input my new clutch info due to time constraints but may if needed.

What doesn't make since to me is if the car does a self learn with regard to clutch periodically, isn't that being done on an ongoing basis as the clutch wears ?

For what it's worth, my tech thinks its ridiculous and totally unnecessary.

 

I just would have thought not all of us would get that lucky.

Maybe we dont know it all yet

 

Skipp, I don't know your tech and I don't know this system like a pro but I do know other pros. Here is what I do know - people don't design systems with variables and parameters that are not needed. Originally I assumed the clutch position as new was only used to give a wear value and Matt confirmed right away it had another use. This page from the WSM explains the effects that value has and how it can be manually adjusted to change the characteristics. That 100% confirms how the value is used.
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PS - Skip, the problem is you no longer know your new closed clutch position as it's equal to the self calibrated position when installing a new clutch. You have driven the car so you already have wear, minimal as it may be.

Disclaimer - What anyone wishes to do with their car is not my business. My posts are in the spirit of technical accuracy.

 

Dave, first of all your insight and sharing here is much appreciated and I’m not debating what the factory originally intended.

My question is this. In your WSM post it says to set the PIS manually if the TCU is replaced and you don’t have the closed position figures.
If you can set the PIS manually and forget it due to not having the numbers to input into the TCU, how is that any different than having the system self calibrate as I have done thus far ?

In both instances, the TCU does not know the closed position figures.

 

So, I'm learning about this and don't have all the answers yet.

What you are seeing about, is not the PIS, it's the new closed clutch value and it's my understanding that parameter is used to determine wear and then internally adjust the PIS as the clutch wears. It's my understanding that on a 355, the PIS is not manually set. That said, it's my understanding that the PIS which is automatically set will be affected by this value. Yes, it's a bit confusing but as you see from what's posted in the WSM, it's clear that altering the new closed clutch value will have an impact on PIS and you cannot do that without an SD or Leo. It's also my understanding that the 355 F1 system is very different from 360 and up.

I will keep speaking with various techs on this subject to learn as much as I can.

 

I’m probably messing up the terminology. What I’m trying to say is if the TCU is replaced and you don’t have the correct figures to input, the WSM you posted above says to adjust the “take off /pickup “manually. That at least implies that imputing these figures is optional.

Just thinking out loud.....

 

No, that's not what it's saying. In you install a new TCU and you cannot read the new clutch closed position from the old to input into the new, you will likely need to manually adjust the new closed clutch position in accordance with the characteristics of how the car is responding and to do that, you will need an SD.

 

Maybe it's like changing timing belts? Dial gauge and degree wheel is the Ferrari way. But lock and swap on the assembly marks is very consumer acceptable and cars run just fine.

 

So you’re saying the self learn process won’t do this ? If not, please educate me on what the self learn process does do.

 

Skipp - let me get clarification from a couple techs so that I don't disseminate incorrect information.

 

Thanks. would love to put this one to rest.

 

Skip i think after rereading the wsm many many times i kinda understand what they are saying.

I think this is why maybe some F1 clutches do not last long.

The rpm in which the clutch starts to. Engauge can vary quite a bit. If after changing your clutch the rpm is too high when the clutch starts to close it could be that the new closed position is set too high.

For most of uswho are no doing drag starts or slippery mode starts. They probably feel fine but maybe they are not engauging where they should.

I am guessing obviously.

Mine seems to start engauging about 1400

 

Thanks Taz. I’m not claiming to have the answer. All I can say is after doing a new flywheel and clutch, the self learn system seems to have set my engagement point perfectly. I would never subject it to a burnout, so I can’t comment on how the clutch would engage during that sort of take off. For the clutch to wear out quickly, I think you would certainly know if it was engaging at too high an RPM or slipping. Either it is or it isn’t. If it isn’t, I’d think your good to go.