Grocery getting? | FerrariChat

Grocery getting?

Discussion in '348/355' started by Ferrarium, Oct 31, 2018.

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  1. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2018
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    Eric
    I seem to read a bit about the 348/355 needing ro be driven longer distances to drive it or wlse you get moisture in the oil or what not due to it not warming up so dont drive it leas than 10 minutes or what ever. There may be something to that there may not be.

    I just did service and timing chain pad had near 0 wear and oil pump tensioners were not worn down all from use but there was huge deep gouges from the chain caused by dry starts presumably, seems short hops bring carful may actually be healthy. ill post pics later on that.

    How many of you use your 348/355 car to go to the grocery or othe short hops minding rpms untill oil warms etc and see any issues from it?
     
  2. krazykarguy

    krazykarguy Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2014
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    Matt
    I took the 355 to WalMart once. Had to return a box fan I had just bought 5 minutes after buying it - because it didn't fit in the frunk. :oops:

    It was a 45 minute round trip, highway and back road... so it got plenty of time to warm up. It doesn't matter what kind of car - every car needs to be driven regularly to stay healthy.
     
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  3. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Tim Dee
    did 300 miles saturday
     
  4. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    ahh, i was referiing to regularly using it for short hops, not haing done it one time or longer trips we all do that, i did 190 miles last wedneaday.

    sorry if i was not clear. regularly use it for ahort hops as defined by 10 min or less 1 way.
     
  5. kenneyd

    kenneyd Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2014
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    I tried to avoid any starts that dont allow a full warm up (i.e. moving around parking spots in the garage). Maybe over kill, but my car gets pushed a lot.

    Short drives likely aren't an issue. I always like mine idle until the air pump turns off, and my oil temp is near 200 within 10 minutes i suppose.

    When you guys push your cars, were do you push from? I avoid all body panels, usually the door frame, steering wheel, or the 1/4 window frame.
     
  6. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    I have found that short easy trips 100 miles or less both the 348 and 355 just dont like it. First hundred miles it's just getting to temperature then beat the devil out of it for 200 miles and the car will be so happy.

    Really dont take mine out unless I know I can drive it like it was built for. I have moe better car fo that :)

     
  7. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    right i have better cars for cvs runs to but noe of them have a chrome horse on the front.

    i suppose i am not ckear why the 348 engine may have issues with 10 min drives where "normal" cars dont.
     
  8. aballas

    aballas Karting

    Jul 29, 2017
    134
    Portland, OR
    The more often I drive my 348 the better it behaves. Rain or shine. Even for short trips. I watch revs until it's up to temp of course, but it likes to be driven often. If I go for more than a week or two without taking it out for a spin things tend to get cranky. Shocks feel stiff, speedometer may or may not work.
     
  9. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3

    Dec 15, 2012
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    Brian
    This is true for all cars, it’s nothing specific to the 348/ 355. Any car that’s ran repeatedly without getting up to temperature will accumulate condensation in the oil.
    Unless the grocery store is across the street from your house you will get the car up to temp on short runs. It really doesn’t take much, especially when you are under power driving somewhere. It takes a little longer if it’s just sitting and idling. I can’t see it being an issue and it’s definitely not a 348/355 specific issue.
     
  10. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Right so the issue "seems" to be oil condensation. The 348/355 is dry sump so there is LOTS of oil so it takes longer increasing the risk of condensation with short drives. Change the oil every 3 months like most cars typically do and all good plus bearings and seals stay wet. Am I missing something or is that it?
     
  11. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
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    john truskowski
    The cars driving habits have just as much to do with the oil conditioning as does vehicle storage. I think its safe to say almost everyone stores their Ferrari in a climate controlled garage, so there is less chance of having condensation forming in the oil. Radiant floor heat helps too. :) Now if a vehicle is left out in the cold and started, warming, then let cool again condensation will surely form thus requiring more frequent oil changes. I know when I change the oil on my 355 it looks like it is coming out of the bottle.
     
  12. Culprit

    Culprit Formula Junior
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    Apr 4, 2011
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    Changing the oil every 3 months seems a bit much mate. I think once a year is plenty.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  13. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    I agree 3 months is excessive normally however I am hearing the issue is moisture in the oil with doing daily driver short trip duties. Thus is so, then changing the oil frequently eliminates the moisture presumably.

    Unless there is some other mechanical reason why people don't zip down to Starbucks 2 times a day that is 2 miles away in their 348/355's besides moisture in the oil.
     
  14. Streetsurfer

    Streetsurfer Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2015
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    Condensation is a byproduct of combustion. Fuel bypass is more commonly accumulated in cars that undergo repeated cold starts and subsequent short trips, where operating temperatures are not sufficient enough to dissipate it. Something like over 3% fuel dilution is about where it starts to become worrisome. That equates to a just a few ounces of fuel per gallon of oil. The moisture built up in oil from frequent cold starts and not reaching operating temps and maintaining it for long enough periods needs to be dissipated by longer trips. Otherwise air bubbles form in the boundary layer between oil and condensation, and these bubbles become superheated between bearing surfaces under pressure, where they explode violently, creating pock mark damage to the bearing surfaces. Acids also form in a situation of repeated short trips. This can also be harmful when an oils additive package is stressed regularly and depleted. Premium filtration of air, fuel, and oil are vital in keeping contaminants to a minimum so the package can properly deal with the problems created from frequent short trips. Fuel dilution of the oil makes it more solvent, and it can begin escaping through seals and gaskets.
     
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  15. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    "not reaching operating temps" were talking oil temps not engine temps? My oil gets to temp or close to it but the engine always runs a bit cool if we use the middle point of the engine temp guage as standard. Especially on highway runs with cooler weather.
     
  16. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Since restoring the engine and transmission on my 360, I've been driving it a lot to make sure everything is reliable (And I've found a few things, not having to do with engine or transmission).

    So I'll take it to HEB to get some groceries, but I do make a roundabout trip out of it so everything gets up to temp. Not shy about driving my Ferraris at all. They're just cars. :)
     
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  17. aballas

    aballas Karting

    Jul 29, 2017
    134
    Portland, OR
    Seriously. People seem to treat these like there's some weird black magic keeping them running. It's no different from any other car of that era. It's just an internal combustion engine. It's not rocket science..

    All these threads with people arguing over the tiniest minutiae of how to treat, maintain, and drive these things... Seems people spend so much time worrying about them when they should just be out enjoying them.

    Just drive the car...
     
  18. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    LOL Yuuuup It's just a car drive the damn thing and enjoy it
    I'm lucky I was mine
     
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  19. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    I don't quite believe you get fuel or water in the oil unless you have some ring issues. I have done so many UOA's I can't count and only ones I ever had traces of fuel in oil was in severely boosted turbo cars like 600 hp 2.0L motors. When I turned boost down to reasonable 400hp I had no fuel in the oil.

    I live on NJ (were moving in a few weeks and weather will suck then and streets suck in the city where I cam now the car bottoms on roads) so in the spring I will drive it every day even to go get coffee. After 3 months I will pull oil and send it to Blackstone labs and we'll see. I have a feeling based on other uoa's in cars that it will reveal no water no fuel to speak of outside trace amount that is within universal averages but who knows these may be special due to the dry sump and massive oil volumes.

    Guess we'll see where worse case possibilities meets real world impldementation.
     
  20. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Preach the gospel, brother! :)
    T
     
  21. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    A leaky injector will dump fuel into your oil.
     
  22. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Indeed yes that falls into something wrong with motor, but normal short drives with a normal engine state I am not sure that will do it.
     
  23. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 World Champ
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    Who can resist just taking it 5 miles to the local store??? My 5 mile store trips frequently run into the 30 mile range :) So my wife doesn't send me to the store anymore if she needs something quickly :)
     
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  24. jgriff

    jgriff Formula 3

    Jun 16, 2008
    1,125
    Houston, TX
    I’ve found that 355s can vary a lot on how long it takes to warm the oil up. My first one took forever but my current one seems to be warm after about 5 minutes. I got groceries in mine today but took a very long route just too enjoy the fantastic weather in Houston today.
     
  25. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Ahh you lucky good weather bastards! LOL
     

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