What really lost Ferrari and Vettel the WDC this year?

In his defense, I would say that Vettel probably didn't receive the support he could have expected, in terms of coaching, making strategy, communications, etc ...
Most of his incidents (bar Germany) happened when he was trying to make a place in haste and at the wrong moment, like in a panic
We hear it all the time on the radio, drivers getting information from their pits, or being told when or where to attack, also being advised to be patient, etc ...
I think Vettel benefited a lot from that at Red Bull, and is receiving less help at Ferrari.
I cannot see Arrivabene putting his arm around his shoulders after a defeat and have a quiet reassuring talk like Horner would do.
I am sure he is still a good driver, a fast driver who hasn't forgotten how to win, but he needs a little nurturing perhaps.
Coming off whilst leading in Germany was, with insight, a monumental mistake that triggered a loss of confidence that endures up to now, I think.
Even the most talented drivers make huge cock-ups in their career, from which they recover; for Vettel, it may take some time.

 

Stop. Please, stop. Enough of this "it's Arrivabene's fault for not giving enough hugs".

Most of Vettel's cock ups this season were at the start or first lap. What kind of support can he get from the pits then? Does he need a NASCAR "spotter" or what?

He ****ed it up. End of story. Now it's up to him to wake up. If he can't, he'll be replaced by someone who can more soon than later.

 

+1 - he made his own errors on track all avoidable as a majority. He failed to employ a very good car given to him. Thats support. Its F1. Shut up and drive the car. Its not like he was under review at all or close to being released. He should need less support rather than more at this point in his F1 life.

 

I don't know if Vettel had a chance to win but his mistakes made it way too easy for Hamilton to win.

Locking up the championship with 2 races left in the season? Lame. No competition.

 

This.

I'm tired of hearing all the other excuses. Yes, MB was the dominant car, but simply comparing drivers Hamilton was pretty much flawless while Seb made one mistake after another. You get away with one FUBAR but not if you keep repeating them.

 

I believe I am the only one to think that the team tactic was at fault at Monza, for example. The press said as much.
Vettel would never have attempted what he did at the 2nd chicane, if there was a game plan.
Once he had gained a point advantage earlier in the season, Vettel should have been managed to look after the points, and not try to win everything at all cost.
Finishing 2nd or 3rd is sometimes not so bad, but failing to score points is catastrophic.
To instill that discipline and make it stick is the role of the team manager.

You see good management at Mercedes and Red Bull, and not at Ferrari. Why ?

 

After the 2 first GPs, I really though it would be a Ferrari year.
Ferrari had a good car, and Mercedes was on the back foot then.
But all hopes melted after a succession of costly mistakes, compounded by bad management, IMO.

 

I think Vettel's problem is he is trying to emulate MS as a driver and team manager. Vettel is no MS and his focus should be just to drive.

 

Problem is there is no Brawn and Todt at Ferrari at the moment so unfortunately Seb needs to be more than Schumacher which is an impossible task...

I am actually surprised to read that from you....

 

Last year the team made sure he was not an MS. Sergio and Arriva told him rather bluntly to stay out of team business he did not need to be in. HIs dream was never going to happen. He is not good enough to do what MS did to begin with. His time at Red Bull shows how little real race craft he has when faced with difficult times and pressure. Again without a doubt Vettel is over rated in comparison to others. Without Red Bull does Vettel ever win a title? Again maybe next season lol ??????

This year has him fully exposed for what he is not capable of. Frankly given last years issues he had and now this year he should no longer be at Ferrari.

FA had the skill to win and no car and nearly won titles. Vettel has the car and has zero skill compared to FA. He is a failure in my opinion. He should be paying Ferrari back some of his bloated salary he does not rate. Baku was the most glaring evidence of his lack of skill and strategic thought. That race was one move for him to win. He folded like a beach chair at the end of summer in Palma. He simply could not wait to make a sound move on a track with the longest straight in history lol.

 

wow - some really harsh words on Vettel. I think the focus was lost when Marchione died. that lead to a vacuum at Ferrari and people got side swiped. We rant into Arrivebene in July in Maranello and it was clear he was there all week for meetings - saw Leclerc at the same time, so I think they were in the midst of planning for next year and did not pay enough attention to needed updates. probably because of all the Italian obsession with death, and succession at Ferrari.

 

Wow, you don't hold back !
After this season, I don't see Vettel thriving at Ferrari.
There are signs that his tenure will finish as it did for Alonso.: too much frustration on both sides leading to a divorce.
It's very :demanding to drive at Ferrari, and it doesn't suit everyone, regardless of talent.

 

Unless spinning in the second chicane was Ferrari´s tactic, I can´t see how anyone can blame the pit crew for that. OK, maybe they could have played the slipstream game better to put Vettel ahead of Raikkonen, but anyway: Vettel can only win from pole? Vettel doesn´t know that races are not won in the first lap? He´s (he´s supposed to be) a 4x champion. He should already know all those things, without anybody telling. And even worse: at this point of his career he already should know to wrestle with cars around him.

Everybody is blaming Ferrari´s management for everything. They **** it up sometimes, yes, but Mercedes and Red Bull too: they had bad pit stops and even their drivers crashed together too many times. Do you remember the "software glitch" at Australia that cost an easy win? Or the funny "stay out, no, stay in, no, stay out..." pit call at Germany? Hamilton should have gotten a penalty and lost the race for that. They were not perfect either. This year the biggest difference was Vettel. The good news is that I think he´s a lot better than what we saw this year. I hope that this season doesn´t kill him but make him stronger.

The other good news is that I think that Hamilton is not the second coming. Vettel was so disastrous that he made Hamilton look like Prost but he melts down under pressure too: he´s always crying on the radio and even Britney Rosberg managed to psych him out once. But not this year: somehow he felt blessed, so kudos for him. Also Mercedes managed to keep the pace in the development race and used Bottas ruthlessly but with great efficiency. Raikkonen was not a great help for Vettel most of the time.

I hope that next year we´ll be able to put them under big pressure and see if they can deal with it.

 

If the season starts not so well for him, and Charles is close or better, yes one could think he might grow tired of the system and leave

 

What was he overcompensating for in Baku race 4 where he made his first mistake? He won the first 2 races and in China it was safety car misfortune and Verstappen’s mistake not strategy that saw him finish 8th.

 

Don't expect a reply for awhile ...looks like a lot guys been taken down . i might be joining them now

 

Yeah, that was brutal. Now back to Seb. He is his own worst enemy.

 

I'm surprised so few ragged on Arrivabene and few also brought up Marchionne's death. Maybe it was correlation without causation, but I think Marchionne managed Arrivabene.

Not surprised most chose Vettel's mistakes though.

 

If Ferrari really wants to win they'll hire Hamilton otherwise they will continue to be lost until the next formula and Hamilton retires. 2019 is already lost with Leclerc stealing points from Vettel and visa versa.

Hamilton drove a brilliant season that was almost faultless and Vettel did not.

 

Prost had a little to say about it.

http://scuderiafans.com/alain-prost-reflects-ferraris-mistakes-2018/

 

I don't think Hamilton would withstand the Ferrari world. He would have no base there.... unless some key Mercedes folks went with him. He now has Mercedes as his team... Ferrari are very un likely to do that for Hamilton.

Vettel had a bad year, yes, but he also drove very well too. there is a tremendous amount of pressure, and just the physical aspect of driving on top of all the team politics. I think the death of Marchionne had a much bigger play than anything else. Vettel is clearly a great driver... but he also needs that close supportive environment like he had at Red Bull... and does not have that yet at Ferrari. Un fortunately I don't see him hanging around after next year... its possible but doubtful. I could see him going back to Red Bull.

 

Vettel had a few great races this season but he also had a quite a few disastrous mistakes costing himself and Ferrari 50 plus points.

If Ferrari are serious they would bring over everyone Hamilton needs to be successful. Hamilton is the greatest driver of this generation and IMO he's exactly what they need. The Tifosi will become Hamfosi before the ink dried...

 

You’ve never ever been to Italy on a race weekend then? Elton has no friends among true tifosi, and the tifosi want to beat him and Mercedes. In the Italian mind, the only reason to bring Elton into the fold would be akin to agreeing to share turf with another Famiglia or clan.... make your enemy believe you are his friend, learn the control of the turf, then apply the pressure to destroy him and take it for yourself.

Of course, we’ve managed somehow to neutralise Vettels talents, and destroyed Alonso who beat Michael to two titles, maybe that’s the plan? If it were, then they’ll take on Elton just to ruin him! That won’t take long, once he’s lost a couple races his mind goes to mush anyway, he’d be broken within the first half of the first season of bad results. Hehehe

 

Must all be non real tifosi in these pictures from the 2018 Monza podium ceremonies... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login