Classiche Certificate 328's

I highly doubt that this event (or any other) has vanished because of Classiche. Please. Classiche is a voluntary service. There’s no crime in not getting a car certified but some (a small few) get carried away with their critsim.

 

This was, what was extensively discussed in the specialized press back then. A high percentage of owners of these vintage machines just didn't accept being forced into Classiche certification and looked elsewhere.
Today, if I want to experience vintage Ferrari race machinery I attend the Tour de France Automobile or Le Mans Classic.
The good thing, like already mentioned; Since Classiche exists the number of high class Ferrari participants did significantly increase at those events.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

I had my 328 GTS Classiche certificated a few years ago now.
A. to see if according to Ferrari everything was as it should be
B. to get a further understanding of the process involved in the certification process.
C. to get a base line reference that should I want to sell it, all the potential owner has to do is get a mechanic to check over the car using all the reference numbers and points listed in the folder to verify everything is matching.

 

Good stuff. Yes, annual verification isn’t a big deal. Some act like it is such an incredible expense. For those who prescribe to Classiche’s purpose it’s a simple investment.

 

I can understand that there is not an insignificant expense associated with Classiche but it's like most things, if you see the value in it you will pay it, if you don't you won't. Simple !!

 

Gawd, that looks like a cool event. Please tell me it isn't completely defunct.

 

I can't. The last event took place in 2009 (or 2010?). And I remember very well the debate about the Classiche enforcement which first led to a significantly decreased number of entrants and finally to the end of that corporate event.
Some may not get it, why owners of such high prized vintage stuff refused to invest in the Classiche program, but a significant number of them did.
Maybe there are a lot of clever business men among them, who recognized, that there are more reasonable investments, if you want to run these machines on the track throughout the year.
And it's a fact, that there are folks with huge money over here, who are not willing to throw their money out of the window anyway.

Luckily these machines didn't disappear from the tracks, but like already mentioned, indeed one finds them no more at Ferrari corporate events but elsewhere.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

I’m sure some refused to not have their cars Classiche certified, which is of course their right, but I’m very confident that the demise of this event had other factors involved and little (if at all) due to Classiche. If it was as robust and hugely successful as described it would still be going on.

Nobody is forcing anyone to apply for Classiche. Some people make it seem like the police come to your house and haul you off if you don’t.

 

Further opinions needed from over here, from folks who experienced the decline back then and remember the Classiche debate.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

I'm afraid it's 100% true.

Ferrari got the bright idea that anyone who wanted to compete in the Historic Challenge had to have their car go thru Classiche. No Classiche, no entry. The majority of the owner's felt like it was an unnecessary extortion and told Ferrari to pound sand. Their greed killed what was undeniably one of the greatest series around at the time.

 

Agreed 100%.

 

I remember the debate here on Ferrarichat. It was a big eye opener that Ferrari was all of a sudden only worried about profit.

Around the same time they did away with the searchable history by VIN on their website.

 

... and free build sheets/certificates (which are now € 500.00 LOL), homologation papers, owners manuals. I still have all of them on my harddrives. Was worth the two hrs. effort downloading each single document.
I would be interested in the management changes around that time, when their greed got overwhelming.
Surprisingly a lot of spare parts -mainly the usual maintenance stuff- got cheaper over the 22 years I have my 308 now. But this is a Ferrari UK- thing.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

Yeah, I was referring to the build sheets. I thought it was a shame for Ferrari give something away and then a few months later tack on a huge pricetag for it.

At least my factory tour was free.

I have always though that most of the consumable parts are pretty reasonable for the 3x8 series. What is disappointing is that there are so many NLA parts for the 3x8 series, and have been to this day. I have an NLA 328 dash vent in my parts stash. Even at a major show like Cavallino I could always find a 328 that needed a replacement vent. Amazing that happens!

 

I'm disappointed about today's quality of some 'official original', so called 'Maranello approved' spare parts coming from China or India. For instance waterpumps or belt tensioners.
O.k. the last really original Ferrari waterpump I purchased in 1997 did hurt with its price tag of € 1.800.00, as well as tensioners for €280.00/pair.
But what we get now from Ferrari is simply crap. At least with the tensioners we have the Hill Engineering alternative at around half the price. And the last real Ferrari waterpumps are rebuildable.
But belts, filters and similar things got cheaper too over the decades and are still of reasonable quality.

Talking about 328 dash vents. Aren't Verell's reproductions no option for you?

Best from Germany
Martin

 

Agreed on the Chinese crap. My A/C compressor went and my mechanic urged me to find the original American made pump. It took some time to find one.

I sold my 328 so I don't need one of Verell's. His mirror end caps saved me a couple of times though!

 

100% depends on the buyer.

I am living walking talking proof that it is meaningless if I were looking for one. And no way am I the only 3X8 guy that feels like this.

 

Back when the program started I was invited to have my car Classiche Certified. So what would it be worth today, 12 years later, if I had it done then? The letter and brochure are probably worth more.

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Do you have anything to back up your be claims or just based on your blind love of Classiche?

In Europe the demise of the series was discussed in press at the time. I can post some of those articles (copyright permitting) if you need any more convincing.

 

There are several that buy a portrait. A stamp. A wristwatch. A monkey. A parrot. If you like it, why not? I prefer cats. And old sport cars. And Classiche red book too. What is Worth? Who knows, but it's very nice to have it at home in your library. You say it's worthless? Maybe. I sold two cars with the red book: in both case the buyer said "I don't care of it". But both the two buyers got the car and paid a price very close to what I asked. And when they came here to take the car they didn't forget to ask me "Where is the Classiche book?". And when I gave them the red book, their faces lightened up. This happened with both buyers.

ciao

 

I just still do not understand this program for any car built from the mid 70's onward.

I am sure there are owners who buy a new one then want to buy the Cert after... And Ferrari will sell it to them too. LOL.

 

So the demise of the Historic Challenge, caused by the Classiche enforcement was just some acceptable collateral damage?
Acceptable because some individual sellers can now earn a few bucks more when having the red book?

Best Regards
Martin

 

I don’t know if the certification adds value to my cars or not. It doesn’t really matter to me. I got them certified because I like having them certified. I also plan to honor that certification and maintain my cars to the standard that earned them that distinction. I realize there are some that are inconsolable about the mere existence of the Classiche, and that’s fine. The program has room for improvement, and I particularly have issues with their restoration standards, but I like having the red books. They add another layer of provenance to my cars and that’s all that matters.

 

I’m not making any claims. Someone else did that. I just expressed skepticism that an event was folded just because of Classiche, particularly if it was as hugely successful as described. But, sure, I have an open mind. I’m on here to learn not to argue. I’d love to see more info.

 

Yes: why not?

If I didn't have to pay for it, I would get my car Classiche certified just to have that cool red book. It really is a beautiful little piece of documentation that I could enjoy without even having to leave my sofa.

Certainly Classiche is most valuable to answer the old one-off car questions such as "is it true that the Factory actually put the 1956 front spoiler on my 1953?" or "is this shocking Flamingo Pink really the Factory color???!!"

Newer cars are pretty standard "products" and there is much less uncertainty as to how they were built.

It is an interesting question as to why owners of the 1950s and 1960s vintage Ferraris resist Classiche.

I doubt it was the money and more likely that many cars couldn't pass the Classique test.

I've been lucky enough to attend a couple of Open House sessions at Patrick Ottis Inc. who is one of the guys you would consider to restore your 250 GTO (and who is also a Pebble Beach Concours judge). At the Open House sessions Mr. Ottis details the many modifications made to those cars -- many times for the better -- over the years. For example, at this year's session one of the topics he talked us through was the recreation of a factory dashboard for a 1950s Ferrari (I forget the model). The recreation required extensive knowledge of how Ferrari did it in those days; there was no other car to compare it to. (I also forget why the original dashboard was discarded and replaced. … Something to do with the position of the steering column.)

I would expect many of the cars in the Historic Challenge had slight modifications which the owners were perfectly happy but also knew that it would mean their car couldn't pass the Classiche assessment.​