Hole inside the rim? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Hole inside the rim?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by paulchua, Nov 17, 2018.

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  1. Portofino

    Portofino Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2011
    564
    Yorkshire UK / Switzerland/ Liguria ( Italy )
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    Portofino
    #26 Portofino, Nov 21, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
    It’s need to be forensically examined and some further ballistic tests to eliminate a fire arm .
    It looks like a firearm to me btw .
    Opens up the wider aspect of an accident or deliberate.If deliberate this then opens up the dilemma of contacting the authorities, who will inevitably will need to do background checks ,particularly the driver and any motives of close associates etc .
    But the authorities surly need to be alerted to go down the forensic route .

    It’s risky just dong nothing as if it was deliberate ( and random ) the perpetrator(s) may strike agian .

    If it’s an hunting accident then it’s just bad luck .
    Having said that in France ( deer and boar + other ground game ) there’s about 10 fatalities each year despite everybody wearing orange high viz .
    Firearms- ground game - humans in the background = there’s an inevitability.
     
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  2. Hocakes

    Hocakes Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2010
    451
    FL
    Yes, a magic bullet that magically was fired from the left side of the car (since the hole is on the BACKSIDE of the right rear wheel so shot had to come from the left) at near ground level, went across/through the entire width of the car or undercarriage, & punctured the BACKSIDE of the right rear wheel w/o hitting a single thing along the way. And some super sniper that could make this shot with a desire to shoot a car. Get real.

    OP says he heard something bouncing around & then it went flat. I'm with a good sized bolt or metal rod or something got kicked up from the road, clanged around the backside of the wheel & hub, and eventually got wedged & forced into the rim. Then it fell out.
     
  3. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
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    Jan 21, 2004
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    Guido
    Maybe a good thing to go back at that place and look for more details....

    Guido
     
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  4. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Sep 12, 2004
    5,222
    Montreal
    Agree with this theory. Look at scrape marks - including the one right on the edge of the hole where I presume the offending foriegn object punctured the rim.
     
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  5. metaldriver

    metaldriver Formula Junior

    Apr 6, 2015
    631
    Houston, Texas
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    Andy Vecsey
    I agree with Mr. Rection (most things are biggest in Texas but it appears that Washington wins this time. ;) ) that while the hole appears to be from a bullet, the trajectory of a stray bullet penetrating the wheel to be radially perpendicular at the point of impact while the car is travelling is impossible. It could’ve happened if the bullet ricocheted off of a piece of suspension; however, Paul reports there are no marks from a foreign object.

    I owe Mitch an apology because his theory is the most possible. Add to that the comment INRange makes about a foreign object being jammed between something and the wheel, there was enough fulcrum force to literally punch a hole into the wheel, thus elevating the theory to probable.

    This is substantiated by Paul’s description of a clanking sound just before the loud noise. Perhaps whatever penetrated the wheel was then blown out of the hole by the escaping internal tire pressure, and may never be found.
     
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  6. Portofino

    Portofino Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2011
    564
    Yorkshire UK / Switzerland/ Liguria ( Italy )
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    Portofino
    Would one of theses trajectories do it ? Red lines and anywhere between .
    From below - car was over the brow of a hill ?
    Shooter on the L behind - remember the car was moving quickly and the wheels spinning fast ,
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  7. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    Dec 19, 2004
    9,065
    SF
    The new cars all have cameras inside the wheels.
     
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  8. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2013
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    Wow this is odd. The scrape mark is probably related. But a handgun with the muzzle between the spokes, fired down at the wheel could have made and entrance hole like that. But what about the suspension and hub? Or maybe just a dent and then the punishment on the road made the weakened dent punch out. The odds of a piece of debris making such a perfect hole after all that scraping is hard to imagine too. Very weird.
     
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  9. NW328GTS

    NW328GTS Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
    2,191
    Washington
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    Hal
    a handgun or rifle round that penetrated the wheel but not the tire from the inside ( or at least embedding itself in the tire) would indeed be a magic bullet.

    A bolt or other piece of cylindrical road debris is the most likely culprit. Occam's razor and all...
     
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  10. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    this
     
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  11. Streetsurfer

    Streetsurfer Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2015
    934
    near Chicago
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    #36 Streetsurfer, Nov 21, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
    Perhaps he ran over a live cartridge or shotgun shell and both scenarios fit. Yeah, thats the ticket. Not.

    But, he did say it went ka-pow, and we all know that was everyone’s childhood onomatopoeia for a round being discharged from a Johnny Seven, Man From U.N.C.L.E., Six Finger, Rifleman, or other weapon of our youth, so I’m sticking to the firearm round theory. The clankty-clank could have been the offending round being chambered in a Norinco .45.

    A little levity was due. All in all, I am glad neither the owner or his car were hurt in the incident, aside from the unfortunate wheel damage. I still think it prudent to have it investigated as a possible weapon discharged at a vehicle, if nothing else, but to rule it out by authorities who understand ballistics, just as some who have posted here appear to.
     
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  12. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    You have very strange luck indeed. If something inert got wedged then there has to be marks on the suspension surfaces somewhere. Can't believe a flying bullet could make a round penetration at that angle. Magic bullet indeed. Ron's suggestion of a live cartridge being picked up and the primer hitting a control arm or the lower ball joint nut actually is a decent theory. But it doesn't explain the deep radius scratch. Maybe it does if the cartridge got wedged first then freed then wedged against the primer and ignited.

    I'm not buying it though. Has to be road debris - maybe a pipe nipple. If that round piece of metal is lead then its a magic bullet. If its same as the rim then road debris. You were lucky driving in those hills at that speed with that blowout. You could say you dodged a bullet. Sorry. :)
     
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  13. Streetsurfer

    Streetsurfer Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2015
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    near Chicago
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    Ron
    I was being facetious about hitting a round in the road......jokingly seeking common ground between the two camps, so to speak. All in good fun.
    When a cartridge is discharged outside of the barrel of a firearm without the chamber walls containing the case, the expansion of the gases created by the ignition of the gun powder would instead take the path of least resistance, thereby pushing the primer out, and/or splitting the case first with little force left to drive the bullet at much velocity, if at all after defeating the cases crimp around it. Thus the “not” after that comment.
     
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  14. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Thanks. I think you are right. Would have been more like a grenade without a breach so must be something wedging. OP states no other marks besides the picture so it will remain a mystery otherwise.
     
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  15. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Jul 1, 2013
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    First of all, let me apologize for the long delay in response. I super appreciate everybody's comments. I am grateful to have such a wonderful community of folks. It's one of the best things about the Ferrari community really; most people are just darn nice.
    Here is an update. I inspected the suspension and wheel thoroughly and found no further damage other than the e-brake cable also became dislodged with whatever caused this.

    I ordered a replacement rim and had driven back on the road — no issues.

    I also made the following video to give better context.
     
  16. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Thanks guys, I don't think it was a rock - but I did hear like something came loose...my other thought is could the handbrake protector (which is missing now) have caused this? It seems too small to have got caught between the rotor and the rim. I also noticed the other side is rubber? My replacement one is all metal, perhaps there is a rubber cover I'm missing?

    I ordered the replacement #132129 which doesn't match the picture but seems to be the right part.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    After looking around to if there is anything similar I found this at WRX forum

    My situation is more mysterious because the example above was outward in (not inward out) Also, his tire has a hole, whereas my tire is entirely intact!

    They too think it was a bullet! haha. Also just for clarification, that metal teardrop slug is part of the rim, the reason I know is they both share a metal pattern (lines)
     
  18. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    I was driving for about 2 hours before this happened, and on a stretch of road that is uninhabited. No cars around me for at least 1/2 mile. I did not see anybody around for what it's worth. But I still have the rim - I'm thinking if it is a gunshot, I would not hear the 'clankty-clank' sound before the 'ka-pow' Could that e-brake protector have gotten lose and got between the rotor and rim? Even then seems like enormous forces would be required to make such a perfect hole. Also, somebody asked me if this was a previously damaged rim and perhaps repaired previously? That I do not know.
     
  19. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    That might be a good idea-but it's about 2 hours away from me and it's been a while so I probably won't go back.

    Thansk Guido!
     
  20. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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  21. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Bullet is ruled out based on your video IMO. Appears to be a punched hole. Does the e-brake fitting fit the hole diameter and does the rotor line up with the area of the hole? If so, then possible the piece came off some how and wedged between the rotor and the rim. Check for any marks on the rotor edge.

    The new rim and tire look great.
     
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  22. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Thanks man, the part is on route and I will definitely check!
     
  23. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2008
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    paul im going from memory but the pivot from the caliper ebrake arm is about that size. don't think it sticks that far into the rim though but check it out
     
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  24. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2008
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    it looks like your car has a different system for e brake than mine. but my theory is still better than being shot at!!!
     
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  25. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2008
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    im sure something failed on the cable and something from the barake shoe hardware popped out like number 26 and it all went bad. are other pieces missing from the brake shoe hardware?
     
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