Miura, the original supercar

I'm feeling Lucky that you are not trying to be difficult…. where did I mention the rear Hood was SVJ ?

Here is to satisfy your Curiosity...
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Humm… any former owner testimony is incontestable when he ordered specific modifications… whatso ever where these have been made, my opinion !

For instance, you will consider Walter Wolf testimony if you ask him about the Miura SV he got post Miura production isn'it ? or Patrick Mimran about his Miura Jota/SVJ recreation in mid 80's...

For these cars besides all the pictures we know, do you have tracability of invoices and/or factory documentation ?

 

Thanks. I can see now that this hood never had the P400 tail lamps. Though the ones on it are usually the type fitted on cars as after market when the SV type have been damaged. Perhaps the hood was supplied without the tail lamps and they were added by the Swiss dealer who modified this car?

 

Miura.. such a beautiful design.. have to try hard to screw up, yet somehow people manage. That white one and many “SJ” whatever mods are all terrible.

 

brilliant design in our show room….


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So true.

Cars like the Innocenti SV and the blue one in The Miura Bible are as good as it gets for me.

 

In no way has #4808 any historical value. It was on display on the Lamborghini stand in 1981 only because somebody agreed to.
Way too overrated car if I may say.

 

Well to defend the opinion of the new owner who doesn't want to appear in your taste debate pro/con , it appears the "somebody" has names…

Patrick Mimran, wondering to get Press's attention

Ubaldo Sgarzi, wondering to get Press's attention

Giulio Alfieri

so nobody here can dispute the fact the factory owner and managers decided/agreed to display it

Thus, it closes the conversation.

It has a history value, because all the cars displayed on official Lamborghini have an historical value… if not for you then, you can remove most of the prototypes from the history, but are you biaising history when you want ???

New owner is asking you to point which Miura that are Roadster or Spyder ?

The original Bertone Roadtser was not running when displayed at Bruxelles and at Geneva same year, it was never displayed on a Lamborghini stand, and it was fixed mechanically much later in 1969 before sold to ILZRO.

If someone is wondering to have a Targa, what so ever his tastes, this is the only one officialised by Lamborghini, despite all your good manners to dispute the fact #4808 already pleased several owners in its life… again tastes and colors…

Picture copyright VINCENT MARTIN - 2008
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If I didn't mention the names of Mimran or Sgarzi or whoever else, it was indeed to emphasize the fact this car was there ONLY because some people agreed to.
This car was not there to show a new range of Miura or a factory customization could be ordered from customers.
It was not there to show a one-off Lamborghini prototype or a specialy ordered modified car from the factory to a VIP or else.
It was not either a modification ordered by the factory to show any sort of partnership with a designer.
No, it was just there to attract press attention.

Now if that Targa SVJ was a Lambo factory - made car, yes I would consider it with a certain historical value.
But it's only a third-party tuning and a guy who knew the Lambo management had a chance to get in on display.

Hey, what if Roland Affolter had the chance to display his fugly Diablo Evolution next to the true Diablo on the official Lambo stand in the 1990s, would that had given those swiss-tuned cars any sort of historical value as well? No way!

I'm not criticizing the Targa SVJ #4808 for being tuned and be a targa. I actually like the SVJ style and I think it's pretty cool to drive an open-top Miura.
The current owner has all my respect for finding this car enjoyable.
Yet, I consider this is not an offical Lamborghini creation, like ARE in the contrary the Miura Jota SVR of Heinz Steber or the Mimran SVJ #4088. Those two examples have a true historical value.

Any official prototype or one-off from Lamborghini and/or Bertone have a huge and indisputable value. Don't make me say what I never meant.

You know how much I admire you as a Lamborghini historian and a passionated car-maniac, but when I read you dare to compare the Bertone Miura Roadster to this #4808, that makes me wanna puke!
The original Bertone Roadster is from BERTONE. That Targa SVJ is a tuning from nobody.

 

Interesting debate and thank you for sharing Olivier. I am certainly not a Lamborghini historian, though I do consider myself an avid collector / enthusiast that enjoys learning and studies the hobby closely.

I think the facts are pretty clear: this car was modified from its original spec to a targa spec by a major dealer who was able to get Lamborghini to display it once. That is the end of the story - it is not a Lamborghini spec car and it was not adopted by Lamborghini for future cars. The question boils down to what the current owner’s intentions are for the car. If he fell in love with the modification and will enjoy having the car as modified I see no issue with this and he can enjoy his car however he wants as many others have done. If he is an investor that bought the car to profit based on its “one-off” provenance and expects a premium for this over a Miura in its original spec I think he will have great difficulty getting someone to buy into that. I don’t see this as any different than any other car that has been modified post production and I think other collectors / enthusiasts will generally agree.

As far as PS restoring it as a modified car, that is somewhat surprising and I also think this does not change what this car is as stated by the facts above.

 

Exactly.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Exactly.

To each his own. I personally don't like this car in its modified disguise.

 

Yep... And not only the ugliest Miura, but one of the worst designs ever made.

 

This is correct. I asked Patrick Mimran today if the factory supplied the front and rear hoods for Miura 4808 in the form they are in on the 1981 Geneva Motor Show Lamborghini stand or as they are now. I sent him pictures. He replied that he had no idea regarding this Miura (4808) and that he took over the Lamborghini Company in 1981 and does not remember any Miura at that time displayed on the Geneva Lamborghini stand.

 

Life is too simple friends... I assure you that I don't take if for myself and it is funny to read all the energy you are putting all together to decridibilise #4808, but :

How can Patrick Mimran remember about daily sales of parts/ricambi from Reparto Assistenza ? please explain and feed my/our curiosity, because with all the supports I got privately, some guys are taking pop corn to follow us.

Steven, does it make your argumentation better if today Patrick Mimran doesn't remember about it ?

2x people - witnesses at the preparation of the stand back in March 1981 , Mr Zenari and Mr Leimer - have corroborated that version of history, Patrick Mimran, Ubaldo Sgarzi and Alfieri authorised that Miura #4808 to be on the stand... one was just interviewed a few weeks ago while the other one was interviewed about 4 years ago.... they have no contact together for years... reason why I wrote that in fact...

How many thinks Patrick Mimran do remember over 6 years of ownership and how many days/week what he present ? Do you know the answer ?

He has probably tons of anecdotes, I'm sure we whole be happy to listen religiously to his talks, but the fact he doesn't remember while there are pictures demonstrating the existence is flamboyant isn'it.

isn'it time to pass to another topic ?

 

This conversion was made by Lamborghini S.p.A. in period? No? Then the car is not genuine aka original! Period!

 

If the Mimran's acquired Automobili Lamborghini in May, 1981 as reported above by Joe in his C&SC magazine article, this would have been after the 1981 Geneva Motor Show, which was in March, 1981 so Patrick would not have been involved in the Lamborghini stand at the 1981 Geneva Motor Show.

 

Walter Wolf's SV was undoubtedly built by the factory. I don't see a similarity to the non factory modifications applied to #4808 at all.

Patrick Mimran never had a Miura Jota/SVJ recreation in the mid '80s. He said he has always lived in the present and at that time the present was the Countach and he owned a Countach. He remembers nothing about Miura Jota/SVJ recreation #4088. Sounds like another car with a made up factory history and provenance.

 

Thank you all for your Energy !!!