Renault F1

I think there was some serious arm twisting going on behind close doors at that time, and Renault had to bite the bullet and keep on supplying power units to the Austrian team, not to incur some damaging litigation and the wrath of the FIA too.

But Renault lost the propaganda war by not exploiting the situation in the media as they could have.
Everytime Red Bull criticised their engines, Renault should have gathered the press and made it known that without them, Red Bull wouldn't even be in the game.

I cannot say that I have much time for the Red Bull team, their management or the drivers.

 

Litigation would not have been an issue because Red Bull terminated the contract early, not Renault (neither Red Bull or the FIA could try to enforce the contract after Red Bull had ended it).

In addition, at the time, there was no obligation on place for any power-unit manufacturer to have to provide any team they didn't want to (hence Mercedes, Ferrari and Honda all being able to refuse to supply Red Bull), so even if the FIA were angered by what had happened, again, Renault would simply have pointed out that it was Red Bull who terminated the contract, not them.

Basically, Red Bull were arrogant, and thought they could just end their deal with Renault, because Mercedes or Ferrari would jump at the chance to supply them (I doubt they wanted anything to with Honda at the time). As it turned out, either due to the fact that they genuinely couldn't supply power-units, or simply didn't want to, both Mercedes or Ferrari turned Red Bull down, and showed no concerns that the team might be out of F1 (let's be honest, it was a great opportunity to get rid of a major rival, and gain some very talented personnel at the same time- They don't call it "The Piranha Club" for nothing! ).

One of the biggest problems with red Bull for many people I suspect is, when they were winning WDC's/WCC's with Renault, all was great - one big party, but as soon as they were no longer winning, they turned on their partner, publicly blaming them, and publicly humiliating them. The Red Bull ethos appears to have been: "We win as a team, and we lose because of Renault!".

I don't recall a single time when a Red Bull failed to finish due to a driver error, or a Red Bull error, and Renault complained about how the team or the driver had let them down.

TBH, I was gob-smacked when Renault (eventually) said they were going to continue to supply Red Bull with power-units after all the s**t they had taken from the team, because there's no way I would have done it! - I would have told Red Bull in no uncertain terms to go f*** themselves!

Honda may well be about to learn that the new ethos at Red Bull is: "We win as a team, we lose because of Honda!".

I can't help hoping that Renault gets its act together, and comes up with a power-unit that is superior to Honda's, leaving Red Bull trailing behind Renault's own team - Now that would be poetic justice!

 

It's that disloyalty towards their Partner that make them unsufferable.

Even when Vettel was winning his 4 titles, I never heard much praise about Renault from the Red Bull side.

 

Well there was Turkey 2010 . . .

 

The full quote was:

"I don't recall a single time when a Red Bull failed to finish due to a driver error, or a Red Bull error, and Renault complained about how the team or the driver had let them down."

With both Turkey 2010, and Azerbaijan 2018, I don't recall Renault publicly complaining about the drivers/Red Bull letting them down.

In fact, over the last few seasons, there have been times when the Red Bull cars have let both drivers down due to mechanical issues that were related to Red Bull's assembly, rather than a Renault issue, but straight away the finger was pointed at Renault (such as Verstappen's power-unit shut down at Spa one year. Everyone thought it was yet another Renault failure, but when Red Bull got the car back to the garage, it fired up again without issue, and the problem was traced to an issue with a plug on the Red Bull side of the car. The team quietly acknowledged to those that asked directly that the issue was with their assembly, and nothing to due with Renault, but they didn't bother putting out an apology to Renault, who for many, still appeared to be to blame)

Having already talked up how much better things will be with Honda, it will be interesting to see how soon Red Bull will throw them under the bus if things don't go well, and how well Honda will take to being blamed for all of Red Bull's failures.

 

I live in hope that Renault will finish ahead of Red Bull in the 2019 , and WCC, and Ricciardo higher than Max in the WDC. .

That would really make my day !!!

 

It would be Poetic Justice.

I submitted this letter to Scuderia Claus. I think this 2019 result would do nicely. Yes, I know, very tall order...for Stroll to finish that high.


Vettel
Leclerc
Kimi
Kubica
Ricciardo
Hulkenberg
--Pick 9--
Russell
Stroll
Bottas
Verstappen
Hamilton

I considered asking for Ferrari-powered teams to place ahead of all others, but I didn't want the bearded geezer to think I was asking for too much.

 

If Red Bull throw Honda under the bus, they won't have any more engine suppliers left to turn to. They parted ways with Renault in spectacularly disloyal fashion and are now concentrating on their works team, so I doubt there'd be a return there. Mercedes and Ferrari won't supply them because they're a front-running team and would compete for championships with the works teams. They'd be forced to make their own engines after that, and there'd be nobody else left to take any blame.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

I wonder it the turmoil in France will effect the results of Renault's effort in F1?

 

There may be no Red Bull team in F1 after 2020.
They only have a contract with Honda for 2019-2020, and will decide then if they keep going, depending on the results..
That's what Marko has reiterated recently, echoing what Mateschitz said a couple of years ago.
Red Bull has been spoiled with 4 WDCs and 4WDCs, and they want to be at the top.
Mateschitz explained in an interview that his bigest thrill is to beat factory teams not to finish behind them.
So, one can imagine Mateschitz putting his 2 teams for sale if the results don't come within a couple of years.

Now, Newey's collaboration with Aston Martin to design their Walkyrie supercar, and the forthcoming new rules for LMPHypercars at Le Mans may drive Red Bull towards the WEC after leaving F1.
It's only rumours at the moment.

 

About as much as the US government shutdown will affect HAAS, I suppose.

 

If the Red Bull/Honda hook-up is the most intriguing technical change for next season, then the Ricciardo/Renault pairing will be the most revealing regarding driver talent and it's ability to raise the level of competition of a particular team. In that respect, it would have been fun to see Alonso go to Haas.

 

+1 and if the new rules do not appeal to them.....they will leave, especially if they are not doing well powered by Honda.

 

The corporate turmoil at Renault is probably a greater risk to the team.

 

December 26, 2018 5:55 AM -- https://racer.com/2018/12/26/cost-of-winning-must-come-down-renault-warns/

Renault managing director Cyril Abiteboul says the cost of winning in Formula 1 needs to come down in future years if his team is to continue to view the sport as a viable project.

F1’s owners Liberty Media want to impose a cost cap in the future as well as restructure the distribution of funds in order to try and create a more competitive grid, but agreements have yet to be reached beyond the 2020 season. Renault returned to the sport as a full constructor in 2016 and has invested in the team but is still operating on a smaller budget than the likes of Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull, and Abiteboul says the French manufacturer will not be drawn into matching that level of spend in order to chase wins.

“I don’t want to be moaning about the situation, because when we joined Formula 1 we knew the situation,” Abiteboul said. “What’s quite remarkable is the arms race and the relentless spend in order to win — which I fully respect and I think it has afforded a great racing season this year, so we just need to see how we can emulate at some point.

“At some point there will be a different deal on money distribution; at some point there will have to be a limitation of spend because in our opinion it’s just not sustainable and I believe — correct me if I’m wrong — but I believe this is a shared feeling from everyone.

“So then it’s just a timing issue. If the plan is delayed by one year then it’s delayed by one year but I think what matters is the principle that we must be in a position to win races at reasonable cost, given the value of Formula 1. This is the equation that we want… returning to reality in the next few months.”

 

Renault are one of the ****ing idiots that wanted to implement this ridiculously expensive concept of F1. They made their bed.

 

The best way to keep cost Under control is to maintain the present hybrid power units rules beyond 2020, rather than drawing a new formula surely.
Every time you change engine formula, you incur massive R&D cost, and years of development cost until you reach a plateau.
By 2021, the price of hybrid power units should have come down.

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So Renault underestimated the cost of building a winning car in f1 when they entered, so now everyone should change things to allow them to win? Like ****. You wanted **** little hybrid V6’s, you live with it. They are the main reason f1 costs so much now, the power unit and its associated parts.

 

The 'new rules' are fast becoming the non new rules. Liberty is not at all attracting new MAJOR new sponsors. Renault and Williams need budget help. Red Bull have been public lately on what might happen if the 'new rules' do not suit them.

Personal - I can see Renault, Williams, Force Point Whatever Stroll, Haas and Red Bull-Toro leaving potentially in a the NEAR future. What then Liberty????????

 

I too am not optimistic about the future of F1. The economics of this formula simply don't work and the expenses are crushing virtually every team. I don't see it surviving much longer.

 

Sadly, vegan drivers in Formula E just might attract more interest from the masses than evil petrol burning cars (hybrid or not).

 

We where all promised that F1 needs these hybrid cars so that big car companies will all be very interested in F1 again, and soon every car manufacturer will want an F1 team. BMW, VW, Ford, GM....everyone will surely be interested! It's as you say....they're all running out of money, and patience...quickly.

Williams next year is make or break. Last few pennies in their pot. Renault has the angry french behind them, they've pulled the plug plenty before I can see it happen again. Stroll F1, how long till papa stroll loses interest in funding and sells the team? Find another racing sport young son he'll say. Haas can pack up quickly, too. STR/RBR same company, both will leave at the same time if they want. Mclaren is another....not much more money left over in their piggy bank. Make or break.

What's left over, Ferrari and Mercedes. Ferrari will stay despite their loud noises about leaving all the time, of that I'm sure. Mercedes I think will stay until they're bored.

Liberty needs to act and needs to act now. Their 10 billion dollar investment could well become a very expensive, not so funny, joke. Liberty HAS to get the fans excited again. they HAVE to bring the costs down for teams. The easiest way to achieve this? Piss of a few people. Take action on ridiculously expensive engines. Go back to exciting engines. 15 years ago a V10 engine was 200K a unit. And delivered more power than now. Take action on the aero side of things. There's too much going on, way too much money invested in it, and it hurts the sport deeply. Make aero regs simple. Do not allow for the ridiculous extra bits and bobs they spend stupid amounts of money on. Simplify the wings, clean up the body. Look at the ****ing brake ducts these days. Go back to steel brakes.

The cars won't be slow. No way will they be. They may be a 3-5 seconds or so a lap slower...sure....but they'll be far more exciting to watch. They'll be more of a handful, thus look faster from inside and outside! Someone go back to 2012 Monaco GP qualifying...Schumacher pole 3.5 seconds slower than this years. Did it look slow? Did it ****. People are too afraid. This formula doesn't work, that much is clear. You know with 99% certainty which car will be on pole on Saturday. You know 99% sure which team will likely win the race. It's a joke. Yes I'm sure someone will come along shortly and tell me that in 2002 and 2004 Schumacher won the ****ing lot....Look at the year on year changes back then. Williams, Ferrari, Mclaren, Jordan, Benetton/Renault....all regular contenders for wins.

We all know Red Bull has the best car by some margin. Yet it would've needed not only a perfect season, but also an enormous amount of luck (Mercedes/Ferrari retirements) to even be remotely contenders for the title this year. Why? Because they're stuck with that useless Renault engine in the back. Build your own? Impossible. Honda has invested nearly a Billion (with a B!) in the engine alone....and what do they have to show for it? They *may* be as fast as the useless Renault engine! Good luck convincing someone like Cosworth to build you an engine....

This is lunacy, nothing more nothing less.

 

Bas for President! (no collusion)

 

The redistribution of FOM money is partly at fault.
The top teams, already well funded, receive too much at the expense of the small teams that barely survive.
Why does Ferrari receives so much, even when it's no winning?

 

Most manufacturers are interested in electric power, and Formula E is relatively cheap too.
Formula E will not replace F1, which may die of its natural death in 20 years or so, but provide a form of racing more in tune with the street cars of the time.