Shift Seal Leaking Internally

I changed my transaxle oil in October 2017 and switched to Redline MTL in my 1987 328 GTS. There was a nice improvement in the shifting. Lately though the shifting has become less than satisfactory. I put the car on my lift and opened the filler plug and about a quart of transaxle oil came out. It was a little dark so I am thinking the seal that separates the engine oil from the tranny oil has failed. The seal has never been replaced.

So my question is this: Do I have to remove the engine oil pan to change this inner seal or can it be done by only removing the tranny pan? The seal where the shift rod enters the crankcase is not leaking. Thanks in advance for the advice.

 

Your problem is because they were not changed as a pair. Should always change both. I never remove the engine oil pan to do the job. Waste of time.

 

Thank you for the advice Rifledriver. I guess I was not clear when I posted. Both seals are original - neither had been changed. I've owned the car for almost 32 years so I am sure of that. I'll take your advice and change both.

This should be interesting. I've done crankshaft and cam seals on this vehicle but this will be something new.

 

If it hasn’t been replaced before, then I would definitely do it. Yes, to change the shift shaft seals, you have to remove both oil pan, the oil deep stick tubes, and the inner shift shaft. There are things to know before removing the transmission pan though.

 

Mike, I pulled BOTH pans the first time.

What a PITA !!!!

Brian isn't the first guy to tell me next time just pull the Tranny Pan.

You can do it all from there.

 

Mark you know, come to think of it, yes I believe you can, but I wonder how much of a PITA it would be.

 

None. Its the only way I have ever seen it done.

 

I've done with the oil pan removed, but that was due to other unrelated work being done at the time inside the oil sump.

 

I will WILLINGLY PULL the Oil Pan one more time as it was such a Rubic's Cube' to get off ... and that is to put some kind of 'oil baffle' in there.

Or maybe I'll just 'over fill' it by a quart as I hear that works too.

But I HATE to 'over fill' anything.

 

You get to the inner seal seperating the sumps thru the tranny once the pan is removed and the outter 'oil pan seal,' you get to from outside the front of the oil sump.

DO NOT Remove or play with the 'crimping ring' around that front oil pan hole. The seals are rubber-ish. They(it) will come Out and go back In.

One pan; One sump; 1/4 the headache.

 

I've been reading up on old posts regarding this matter but have not begun the job other than draining the engine and tranny fluids. What is the purpose of the balls and springs on the tranny pan?

Are the two seals and tranny pan gasket the only parts I need to purchase?

 

The balls and springs prevent two gears being engaged at the same time. My Alfa transmission was assembled with one missing. You don’t want that.

 

No, they provide the fore-aft detent for the selector shafts. The lockout balls/plungers are elsewhere.

 

The balls and springs provide that snickerty click you feel when you shift gear. The balls fit into a cut out on the shift rod to give you the I'm there feeling when the shift is done.

 

When I get around to dropping the tranny pan, does it matter what position the gearshift selector is in?

 

I recently replaced the sump gasket on my Dino. I left the car in neutral while performing the work. I don’t think it matters what gear it’s in as long as it stays constant during the process. But I’m not an expert.

 

In theory, YES.* .... and ...

NO.

You will very likely ALSO want to replace the rubber boot (like a CV Boot) and the clamp or "keeper ring' that hold it on the front wall of the oil pan protecting the oil sump/seal/shift shaft 'joint' area.

As to the seals themselves, you can go with OEM Seals or the 'X-Ring' or 'Quad Seals,' as many have.

A member here sells 'X-Ring/Quad Seal' kits. It takes the 'Guess Work' out of which seals to buy if you go that route.

This is actually a easy job but just oilily and a bit of a PITA.

JUST DARN WELL WATCH OUT for the detent springs and balls as mentioned above when you 'pull the Tranny pan.'

It WILL get exciting real quick IF one (or More) of those little parts 'takes a hike.'

Also, get advice on how to reassemble the shift shaft* to ensure proper shift fork and shift lever alignment BEFORE you chewimg gum and bailling wire the Tranny pan back on.


* - In the FERRARI World, the most dreaded words other than those related to oil types and when to change timing belts are ... 'AND WHILE YOU ARE THERE (WYAT) ...' Ugh ....

WYAT, You MIGHT want to Change-Out the 'silent blocks' which hold the seperate parts of the Shift Shaft together into one piece. As they age, they can 'sag' and create shifting issues. Also a pretty easy and cheap PITA to do.

Keep us advised as you go along.


Don't forget your fav brew to celebrate at the end of a Successful Mission and a few bandaids to cover the cuts oozing forth the 'blood sacrifices' to our 'God of Italian Locomotion,' Enzo.

 

I'd read that 2nd gear was the preferred option, as it slides the rod towards the front of the car and aids in R&R. That's what I went with.

Take a lot of pictures of the gears and selector switch before you start the procedure. If the switch (or something else) moves for some reason, you'll have to manually reestablish the correct positions for everything by hand - and without a visual reference to where it should go, you'll be quite lost getting the indexing correct.

BTW: Verell sells a tool that deals with the balls and springs. I recommend it. Also: When you drop the pan, those balls and springs (+ a spacer) may just drop to the floor. They need to go back exactly as they came out, so be aware of this too.

 

I'll let Brian answer this one.

What I will say is STUDY the WSM and Parts Catalog very well AND remove the Tranny Pan and STOP. Then have a helper shift thru and Call-Out ALL the gears several times (take pics too) so you can watch and become VERY FAMILIAR with how it all works together as a unit, before you touch ANYTHING further.

Then carefully work your plan.

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Yes 2nd is preferable for removal. I did mine my self. If the car is shifting fine. Mark the shifter to the gate. After all is installed reconnect the shift shaft to the main shaft Reinstall the shift fingers selector. Use a detent block to hold the balls and springs in place. Go back in the car and shift the gears with the clutch. Check that all gears can be selected and the marks are still lined up. If there is a gear that is hard to go into, check that the selector fork is not dragging on the fingers. If it is , loosen the nut and move the fork slightly till there is no interference on the fingers. Re snug nut and bolt and check all gears. Super easy job

 

I don’t remember, the inside shaft seal, which side of the seal faces to what side?

 

iirc the trans seal is closest to the trans and the sump is closest to the out side of oil sump. whixh is why you only need to drop the trans pan. iirc

 

Bet then again mine is a 75 2v carbed
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I am going to apply tape and mark up the parts as absostone's post depicts. The only other transmission work I ever did was replace a bearing on my 1969 Ford Galaxie that had 3 on the column. So I am feeling a wee bit of trepidation. Hopefully after doing the job, it'll not go backwards when in first gear!

 

it wont,,,,, look at the pics everything only goes in one way. I only marked the shifter to be sure nothing changed the distance in the gate. That only changes if you loosen the lock nut on the shaft that goes from the actual shifter to the shift shaft joint. Keep in mind I have a four post lift , so difficulty may vary on the floor