ARRIVABENE LEAVING FERRARI... | Page 10 | FerrariChat

ARRIVABENE LEAVING FERRARI...

Discussion in 'F1' started by Dino2010, Oct 1, 2018.

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  1. fer312t

    fer312t Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2010
    777
    Right, but it is 1967 actually...
     
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  2. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    Well, so Binotto will be 50 this year. A young man, isn't he?

    I'm actually worried about all these changes and turnmoil at the Scuderia because I think that if some changes were needed, these must have been done two months ago, just after the end of the championship, so as to give a chance to the team to stabilize itself; and furthermore, this must mean that there are strong divisions inside the team, down to the lower ranks. Not a good and reassuring perspective.

    Rgds
     
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  3. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    There is not any division inside the team: just the former Marlboro man was in the wrong place like a fish out of water (in my opinion). He is gone, so Binotto can do his job as he deserves. And I'm sure that Binotto will check in first person what the racing dept is doing, without just saying "we have to work hard" ...

    ciao
     
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  4. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
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    Indeed: September 10th, 1967, at Monza. The picture was taken by David Phipps.

    Rgds
     
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  5. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,481
    Probably Arrivabene's contract ended at the end of the year, not at the end of the season. The decision could have been made months ago, only it was announced once the contract ended.
     
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  6. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    I hope you are right. The earlier they did it, the better for the development of the car.
     
  7. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
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    Paul
    Nella fine Arrivabene ha partito male...
     
  8. Sig. Roma

    Sig. Roma Formula 3
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    Dom T.
    Forse si, ma i resultati non justificato il suo presenza. Ha fatto troppi sbagli come capo squadra.

    He did depart somewhat badly, but the results didn't justify maintaining his presence. Too many mistakes were made as head of the team.
     
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  9. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    “So we eventually arrived at the position in 2018 where the worst race team was running the best car. It wasn’t the worst race team because of the people within it – but because of how it was being led. This also seeped through to the mindset of its lead driver.”
    https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/arrivabene-man-few-friends-ferrari

    Rgds
     
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  10. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

    Jun 26, 2013
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    Graham
    Yikes, not exactly the career obituary one would like after exiting a role.

    It does make me hopeful though, that Sebastian will get his mojo back under a new more supportive regime.
     
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  11. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    FRANCE
    Should the 2019 season start well, let's say with a convincing victory in the first two or three races, a positive spiral would start easily...the only risk would be the mid-season development lag that Ferrari has grown accustomed to.
    However, should 2019 starts badly, this negative spiral will not be reversed and - I believe - will lead to a terminal crisis.

    Rgds
     
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  12. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Absolutely, fully agreed.
     
  13. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Oct 1, 2008
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    Andrew

    :eek: Whoa... no kidding. :oops:

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  14. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Soooo I guess that position for director at Juventus is Arrivabene's fall back then??
     
  15. ARMBARBI48

    ARMBARBI48 Karting

    Jan 29, 2013
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    Armido Barbieri
    Right Alberto...he was like a fish......to much mistakes ....it's better he comebak to tobacco company...and not very nice....
     
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  16. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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  17. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    MISSION
    BYENOW
     
  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447

    Enzo Ferrari used to run his team and his company in a very machiavelic way, so I am not surprised about your version.
    However, I have read in the past that John Surtees participated in the first CanAm series with Ferrari's blessing.
    It seems his contract didn't prevent him doing so.
    The link with Lola was of some interest to Ferrari because their car was a monocoque, a technology that hadn't crossed the Alps yet, and Ferrari became conscious of the need to catch up on the "English garagists".
    The CanAm being run in the inter season didn't hamper the Scuderia's programme, and Surtees could bring some feedback to Maranello, apparently.
    Unfortunately Big John crashed and damaged his back, and the following season was in jeopardy at some point. He recovered in time.
    But Dragoni's antagonism started as soon as Surtees joined the Scuderia, in 63 as related by "Jack-the-Lad" on the Sebring incident.
    In the end, he was the catalyst to Surtees' departure, but it's quite possible that Ferrari was scheming in the background.
     
  19. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
    7,273
    A nice video explains the facts:

     
  20. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  21. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    Yes - totally agree, in the latest biography on Enzo - Ferrari Rex - the author goes on to cover that a lot. when a lola came out ( can am Lola ) that had a front end shaped like the 330 - Enzo and Forghieri and a few others were shocked. Surtees said since they are not competing directly against Ferrari in a category that Ferrari was not going to compete in - what is the problem. The accident further added to the growing rift... Enzo kept it cool for a while, and a win in the Syracusa GP ( non Campionship ) pre season led him to think that anyone can win in the new 312. It was only at Monaco that when the full competition came out that they saw the car was way to heavy , and under powered..... Enzo did not like the response from Surtees wanting to drive the V-6 at Monaco, and decided to can him... but then he won in the 66 Belgian GP.. the same race that Stewart almost got killed in- and its the race covered in the movie Grand Prix. Surtees leaving Ferrari also accounts for the change in JP Sarti's helmet 1/2 way through the movie.... Enzo was personally hurt because he and Surtees got on pretty well personally- Surtees would go to dinner with Ferrari and "cover" for him while Enzo hunted local girls.... It also cranked Enzo up when Surtees showed up at the factory in his BMW sports car... finally Ferrari relenting to sell him a car at a "discount" .... it was a complex relationship, but they had mutual respect. I think Surtees actually raced for them again on a couple of one off basis in the late 60's early 70's sports cars....

    Dragoni and Surtees did hate each other. Dragoni because of nationality and felt that Surtee's relationship with Enzo undermined his own position...and Surtees thought that Dragoni just was not a good manager and had no technical understanding of the cars, so why even engage with him, Surtees saw Dragoni as just a logistics manager - get the team from point A to B on time & deal with the organizers. Dragoni wanted to be famous for bringing Italians back to F-1 fame.
     
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  22. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    Tom Spiro
    Sadly I agree too. The downward spiral has much more history at Ferrari than the upward one. Surtees, Lauda, Sheckter, Prost, Schumacher... while there were years of downward spirals.... post Hawthorne, post Surtees, post Lauda/ Sheckter.... Super bad one post Prost... and post Schumacher has been pretty lean as well - much like the 80's.

    I wonder if removal of Arrivebene was / is part of effort to keep Vettel in place? if he leaves - Ferrari are in real trouble. While I harbor great expectations for Charles Leclerc... the reality of Ferrari points to him taking a while to get up to speed.... but one can hope!
     
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  23. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    #248 william, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
    Lola copying Ferrari: that's a new one to me !!! I cannot take that seriously.
    The Lola chassis was far more Advanced than the Ferrari P series; there is no doubt about that.
    The shape? I'm sure Eric Broadley didn't wait for inspiration from Maranello to design his car. But I think the body was designed by a third party.
    True to say that Surtees' accident posed a threat to the forthcoming session.
    They freaked big time, like they did after Lauda's accident, immediatly looking for a replacement driver.

    As for the 312, when it was presented to the journalists at Maranello after (or before) the press conference, Surtees enquired about the engine.
    He was discreetly told that it was an endurance block as fitted to the 330P, but destroked to 250, and not a new purpose built F1 engine.
    Surtees was flaberghasted, fearing the car would be uncompetitive.
    Years later, a couple of British journalists present at the conference reported having heard Surtees muttering: "They are taking the piss now !!!"
    Very uncharacteristic coming from the quiet well-spoken John Surtees we all knew, but a measure of his frustration.

    One of the gripes Surtees had with Ferrari was that for the Scuderia F1 wasn't a priority until Le Mans.
    Up to June, the company was building new cars for its endurance team for the big event, also updating last year cars for customer teams abroad.
    Instead of testing the F1, Surtees and Bandini were sorting out 275 and 330P for the NART, Filipinetti, Francorchamps or John Hoare.
    A lot of Ferrari sales depended on a good result at Le Mans, and F1 was taking a back seat up to mid-June.

    At Monaco, Surtees wanted to race the agile V6 with a Tasman engine, rather than the cumbersome V12.
    The race vindicated him: his car broke, and a light 2-liter won (from memory, I think it was Stewart on a BRM)..
    At Spa, Under heavy rain, Surtees took no chance and followed Rindt, hampered by the massive spay lifted by the Austrian's Cooper-Maserati.
    As the rain slowed down, Surtees passed Rindt to win, but Dragoni was far from happy by the performance; the Ferrari should have led from the start!.
    After the race, the phone conversation between Dragoni and Enzo Ferrari was overheard, and reported to Surtees now without any illusion where he stood.

    There is never a dull moment at Maranello, as recent events have proves us once again!
     
  24. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    #249 william, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
    Completely from memory here, I am pretty sure John Surtees drove a 330P3 or P4 for Scuderia Ferrari at the last endurance championship race at Brands Hatch one year.
    The Scuderia needed a win to clinch the championship, and entered 4 cars, calling Surtees, and Stewart to fill the seats.
    The Ferraris failed to win ; the race was won by ... Chaparral, and the championship by ... Porsche !

    Also, I think I remember a one-off drive by John on a 512S at Monza. Forgot about the result.

    If I am wrong, please correct me.
     
  25. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,481
    Partially wrong: I don't remember Surtees at the 6h of Brands Hatch. Stewart was driving with Amon. Ferrari did win the championship.

    Surtees did race the 512s, at the 1970 1000km of Monza, iirc.
     
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