Australian 328 quirks - 88.5 or not?

Hi All. Just getting used to my 'new' 328 GTS and trying to understand a few strange things. Australian delivered #77633 (so after the 76625 cut-off for the updates). Manufactured in June '88 but delivered in Dec '88. From all of this one would assume I have an 88.5 car........

It does have the handle gaskets as one would expect BUT also has the older style concave wheels and when I checked has the older style suspension (hence the old wheels actually fit properly). During my search for the car I came across another Aussie car with an even later chassis number that had the same set-up.

Does anyone know whether Aussie cars (given small market size) all have this quirk??? Is this just Ferrari being Ferrari and ignoring their own rules? It's a curiosity but also relevant for when it comes to parts ordering too!

In a separate thread I'm looking into the owners wallet and contents too as mine has the later burgundy wallet (Dec '88 delivery so feasible as the burgundy wallets came in for '89 I believe) and a US 1988 model year owners manual (again feasible given the Aussie cars had the cats fitted like US cars)

 

The answer is very easy: the change between "serie 1" and "serie 2" cars was not "clear cut" after 76626, like most changes at Ferrari. A small number of cars with a chassis number higher than 76626 are still "serie 1" with the former suspension and wheels, mainly (but not only) RHD cars , among these some australian cars. Why RHD and australian cars, I don't know, but, to the best of my knowledge, cars #76684, 76793, 76813, 76870, 76888, 77032, 77368 and 77684 at least are RHD and have a chassis number above 76626, but are still "serie 1" cars.
76632 and 76647 also, but these are LHD.
Rgds
P.S: Ferrari was not "ignoring its own rule". The rule at Ferrari is that changes are usually not "clear cut". Usually...never say "never" or "we know for sure" with Ferrari.

 

I Don't think that the answer is so easy Bruno
I just wrote my point of view in another message :

"Timothy, unfortunately I can't help you concerning book's on Aussie car.

But "quirks" interest me a lot. Please forget 88.5 ! There is NO 88.5 outside North America. Aussie, Euro, Japanese etc.. 88.5 doesn't exist. American people create this name just for themselves because they absolutly want distinguish 328 convexes rims without ABS with 328 with ABS ('89 US model)
And to my to my best knowledge there is NO ( any) Aussie 328 with ABS …

AND,
you can read everywhere that Ferrari 328 was fitted with convexes rims until #76626. But I'm pretty sure that it's not the case for RHD 328 ( UK and Aussie ). I never saw or heard about any RHD Ferrari 328 between #76626 and yours fitted with convexes rims. The first could be #77892

So your car could haven't any "quirks" as RHD Australian 328

I am looking for evidence and data about this since a long time so are you able to post or send me photo or/and history file about #77633 ? ( I saw and advertising few weeks ago )

Thanks in advance

Bertrand"

 

Can you please confirm #76684 ? I haven't any information about this car

 

Neither do I. Never heard of it.

 

Thanks for the notes chaps - v helpful

Bertrand - on your request for additional history/photos.......brief story on 77633. GTS Manufactured June '88 and delivered to customer in Sydney Australia 10/12/88 (as per logbook details and also confirmed by Tony Willis from his archives). 44k km on the clock and interior wear/condition (seats, pedals, carpets etc) along with service stamps seems consistent with the odometer. The car seems very original re interior, paint, glass(still showing 77633) etc and complete re tools/jack/inspection light etc etc. In need of some cosmetic TLC re a good clean/detail but in v good shape. Although grime/oil are all over the underside it's been in the garage a week now and there is not a drop on the floor so I think just accumulated grime. Owned last 20 years by single owner (an engineer who loved his car) who bought it in '98 from the Sydney Ferrari dealer when it had 19k km on the clock. Ownership history after first owner in the logbook between '88-'98 not clear currently but I would love to know more if anyone knows the car.......please let me know. From the service history/receipts it looks like it may have spent a period in Queensland at some point 88-98.

Specs are Engine 13213/gearbox 2458. As per all (I believe) Aus deliveries it is fitted with catalytic converter so has the vents in the rear bumper like US cars. The car is Rosso Corsa red with black interior (so nothing unusual there). Has the updated exterior handles with gasket but as discussed above the older suspension (see photos - you can see the older 'round cutout' style upper front wishbone and the stabiliser). I think all Aussie cars came with aircon; this one also has the leather dash option. The front hood underside is body coloured with no insulation pad and is secured with a single hook. Full size spare fitted.

Let me know if any additional info helps.

Cheers

Tim
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You don't even need to look at the suspension wishbones to know if the car is fitted with the "former" or the "later" suspension: the offsets of the two suspensions design are very different.
Therefore, should a car have concave wheels fitted on the "later" suspension, the front wheels would be sticking out the fenders by about 4cm (= 1, 1/2 inch), and the rears by about 5cm (2 inches) (offset at the rear is 63mm on the later suspension vs 11,45mm on the former...)
I have seen one car identified as a "série 1" car on the advertisement, but with bulged wheels. Theoretically, I think it could be achieved using spacers.
The wheeltrack and wheelbase of "série 1" cars and "série 2" cars are different; serie 2 cars have a wider wheeltrack, but a slightly shorter (by half an inch) wheelbase.

As said by Bertrand, "88 1/2" or "88,5" is an expression used by our american friends for the cars delivered from end February 1988 'till the change of model year in September 1988 (for the MY '89), so, during the later half of the 1988 MY, hence the "88 and a half".
These american cars delivered during this period with the revised suspension and bulged wheels didn't have ABS; all the MY '89 were fitted with it. So, all american MY "88 1/2" are without ABS, all american MY '89 are fitted with it, it make sense to differenciate these.

In Europe, ABS was and remained an "option only" (at extra cost...) on cars fitted with the revised suspension, this 'till the end of the production run. So, some early serie 2 cars delivered in the spring of 1988 already had ABS if the owner had pay the extra for it at the order, and some of the very late 1989 cars do not have it. The telltale is the location and shape of the brake fluid reservoir inside the front compartment, adjacent to the windscreen: large brake fluid reservoir fitted exactly in the middle of the shroud surrounding the spare tire, the car has ABS; small brake fluid reservoir fitted offsetted in front of the passenger (= right to us LHD drivers) the car doesn't have ABS.
As said by Bertrand, it seems that none of the "serie 2 " cars delivered to Australia had ABS...so, even if the designation is not appropriate, all the "convex wheels" australian cars were indeed identical to the US "88 1/2"...(except for RHD, metric instruments, and the "short lip" front bumper it seems?).

Rgds

 

But this is exactly what I wanted to say. In other words, the production ot the série 2 cars started with 76626, but some cars produced after this chassis number, especially those produced for the RHD markets, still had the former suspension.
I am still unable to say if there was any RHD car with the revised suspension before 77892, as I don't have all the chassis numbers, nor did I have a full description of all cars known to me as "RHD"; and I don't keep any picture.

For instance, I have known as RHD cars # 76681, 76683, 76731, 76792, 76921, 76993, 76999, 77043, 77130, 77132, 77153, 77163, 77195, 77266, 77351, etc...
but no picture of these nor any note by myself about their suspension, so I cannot exclude that one, or more, already had the revised suspension and bulged wheels.

Two cars are really puzzling in this list: 76792 and 77195: both are United Kingdom cars, but GTBs, and both went to New Zealand at some time during their lives; 76792 was seen in New Zealand in 2005, but not registered for road use; 77195 has been seen in Auckland, N.Z, in 2008. Question is, as these are GTBs, it would be interesting to know if these were already fitted with the revised suspension or not.

Rgds

 

[QUOTE="GTB DownUnder, post: 146387182, member: 222651"]Thanks for the notes chaps - v helpful

As per all (I believe) Aus deliveries it is fitted with catalytic converter so has the vents in the rear bumper like US cars. The car is Rosso Corsa red with black interior (so nothing unusual there). Has the updated exterior handles with gasket but as discussed above the older suspension (see photos - you can see the older 'round cutout' style upper front wishbone and the stabiliser). I think all Aussie cars came with aircon; this one also has the leather dash option. The front hood underside is body coloured with no insulation pad and is secured with a single hook. Full size spare fitted.

Let me know if any additional info helps.

Cheers

Tim
[[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your reply Tim.

may others Australian F-Chatter could help you to know early history of your car....
I Don't have enough Australian 328 photos to know the date of the updated handles and Bruno explained ( once again ) all about that. Concerning air condioning, Unique Cars Magazine ( Issue #244 ) note that all Aussi 328 came with A/C as standard. I Believe that and I Don't saw any Australian 328 without until today.

Bertrand

 

I know your point of view Bruno. But I think there is no exception for some RHD cars but my theory is that the date of change is not the same for RHD 328. May we will know the true one day…..

I Don't have picture of #77195 but I saw #76792 back in July 2015 at Spa Francorchamps. BUT it was fitted with aftermarket rims and used as comp. car in Pirelli Formula Classic UK Championship. So no evidence about serie1 or 2 ! ( no information about New Zealand trip for this one in my data )

Bertrand

 

Thanks for your reply Tim.

may others Australian F-Chatter could help you to know early history of your car....
I Don't have enough Australian 328 photos to know the date of the updated handles and Bruno explained ( once again ) all about that. Concerning air condioning, Unique Cars Magazine ( Issue #244 ) note that all Aussi 328 came with A/C as standard. I Believe that and I Don't saw any Australian 328 without until today.

Bertrand[/QUOTE]

The change for the external (outer) door handles is listed by the technical bulletins from the factory at #75929 (black gasket around the handle well). I have no information about the first Australian car with it.

Rgds

 

I have seen at least 2 cars in the UK which have the early suspension but gaskets on the door handles and the later type of interior door handles which are completely different to the earlier.

 

Hi Andy...
Inner door handle change started with 71597; so the number of cars with the "Série 1" suspension and the "new" design of inner door handles is rather substancial.
The most interesting question would be which is the first UK RHD car that is visually and positively identified with the "Série 2" suspension and wheels...
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand...how many cars (and, subsequently, their chassis numbers, one can always dream) were delivered in all the "Other RHD" countries like South Africa, New-Zealand, Hong-Hong, Singapore, etc...(Japan received LHD cars)
Rgds

 

@GTB DownUnder where does come from information about manufacturing ( and delivery ) date please ?
I saw several time Manufacturing, compliance and delivery date for Australian car, but I don't know if they are always from factory or anywhere else.

 

H

Hi Andy, one of those may be mine. I am based in London. The car was first registered on 1/08/88 and is a GTS. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I think Ferrari did have something with the Aussie cars....just my opinion. With Mondials the same story....Aussie QV modials with SN'ers far over the start SN'ers did have mondial 8 engines, interiors and other items that where left overs from mondial 8.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/mondial-registry.12078/page-26#post-145737606 #644 por exemple.

Guido

 

Hi Bertrand - the information on manufacture and delivery dates/details for my car came from Tony Willis at Maranello Concessionaires Archives - my understanding is that he has information on all RHD cars delivered over twenty plus years of production. The information also cross checks (where available - for example delivery date) with the warranty card for the car.

Hope that helps

 

Hi Tomothy,
I know that Tony manage UK archives but I didn't know he also have information about Australian car. Good to you !

 

I got information from Tony about my Aussie delivered 1976 308GTB!

As well as a previous UK delivered 328GTB that I owned and brought to Australia.

He's quite handy!

 

Question is, is there actually such a thing as an Aussie 328?

I would have thought Aussie cars were identical to UK cars and went down the line as a RHD build car, not specifically Aussie.
For example, do 1987-onwards Aussie cars have the UK dim-dip headlamps? For those who dont know, this was a good idea and provided 20%-brightness dipped headlamps when the sidelights were switched on. Unfortunately the EU sucessfully prosecuted the UK over this requirement and so the UK had to drop it, but my 328 has this.

Some UK cars were lucky enough to be fitted with fabulous Bilstein shocks from the factory, including mine, presumably these made it to Aussie cars as well? Nobody seems to know why some RHD cars got these Bilsteins.

What other RHD countries got 328's ? Presumably Japan? I guess Japan would be unlikely to have had identical spec to UK.

 

The main technical difference between UK and Australian 328 is the catalytic fitted on Aussie cars.

Japanese Ferrari 328 ( still all Ferrari today ? ) are LHD car. Japanese tifosi want their Ferrari as they are in Italy ! There have been several "RHD counties" who have received 328 at that time. Singapore, Hong Kong, New Zealand, South Africa …..
Maranello Concessionaires Archives should know how many and where these cars were delivered.

 

I know of a company who had a brand new 328 frame for sale. The part number came up as applicable to US and Japanese versions.

Australian cars are closest to US versions with the exception of being RHD and having metric instruments. The countries had essentially the same smog and safety equipment requirements. Even the Canadian cars had different bumpers for crash standards required sometime mid production.

 

Aussie cars don't have the euro engine.
I think we had a bit of everywhere in our cars, and rarely the good bits!

Things were so dumb back then

 

Plus most of the UK cars I have seen have had red carpets with the tan or cream leather interior whereas all Australian delivered 328's didn't. They had tone on tone combinations like tan with brown carpets.
One of the easiest ways to spot a UK versus Aussie car.

 

Someone once told me that the Aussie cars had the Swiss engine with cats. Can anyone confirm that?