Last 727 Passenger Flight

Wasn't that a union requirement... that contractually there be a flight engineer even though they were 'obsolete'? Like firemen on diesel locomotives...

 

Brought back a memory of landing in Chicago in the '70s... Playboy's "Big Bunny" was parked there and was For Sale. It was a DC-9, though...

 

Pretty much, yes.

 

A300, at least the early versions, had an FE station.

 

My dad was in one of the first classes at Eastern to go through A300 school in Toulouse. We got to go out there and see the factory while he was there. I remember seeing a simulator and the visuals were a camera that floated above a giant terrain model.

 

In that case the supposed requirement to retain a "fireman" was in case the engineer became incapacitated for any reason. Today that is taken care of by a button that has an alarm that goes off every 30 seconds or so. The engineer has to press the button within, I believe, 10 seconds, or else the train will be stopped automatically.

 

Wonder what good an FE would be without his own panel? .. just an added safety resource in the cockpit?

 

Basically, yes. He had duties-- I believe read the checklists, handled company communications, did the preflight, maybe a few other things, but really wasn't that important.

I have a friend who started at United in that role (and retired as a 747 captain).

 

Brings back memories of flying on Eastern A300's ATL-SFO, non-rev when I was a teenager (my mother worked in the Eastern reservations center in Charlotte). Must have been 1980-1982 or so.

I remember always trying to schedule the L1011 instead of the A300 - and how different the engines sounded.

 

That was state of the art back then. Recall seeing one at WPAFB in 1980 being used for low level flight training.

 

I have 3000 hours in 727s ...and 2000 were in the climb!

 

We used one of those terrain boards and camera for factory training on the GBU-15 back when the seeker used TV instead of IR. Pretty realistic but cost a fortune to build.

 

It sounds like that could become quite annoying after a while. I always thought engineers had a Deadman pedal. Guess pressing a button every half minute is a more reliable way to know they're awake.

 

I think this eliminates the need to be pushing the throttle all the time, which can be tiring on a long nonstop run. The train can effectively be on "autopilot", but they want to make sure the engineer is still awake and alert. Many electric railways (like subways) often have a device that can stop a train if it runs a red signal, but I think that's impractical on diesel trains.

 

Isn't that "Positive Train Control" which is becoming a requirement in the US?

 

I didn't think it was a throttle but a pedal with little resistance and throttle was done by a hand operated control. Sorry, didnt mean to sound pedantic. Kinda punch drunk with lack of sleep. 2 month olds will do that

 

It's the same principle, but I don't know exactly how PTC is going to work on road locomotives. It may be more of a communication system which will warn an engineer rather than actually taking control of the train, sort of the way ATC works in the sky.

 

It has certainly been sold to the general public as actually taking control. Especially after the Amtrak accident in Washington a few years ago.

 

I remember when I was teaching a course in 727 familiarization before it was built that the rate of climb initially was 3600 FPM. This generated ooh's and ah's from the audience. At that time it had startling performance and it is still one of my favorite airplanes.

 

I think the unions had some say in making that happen. 2 seat cockpits and all.


The 72 was a great airplane. One of the few airliners built that’s ever been a true “pilot’s airplane”.

The first thing I noticed about that airplane, during my first engine start-up was....”wow man, I wasn’t thinking about not being able to hear the engines spool up.” You had to watch the gauges to know they’d lit up. I’ll never forget how cool I thought that was.