Interesting 3 car comparison | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Interesting 3 car comparison

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by pdxjim488, Feb 18, 2019.

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  1. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2012
    2,419
    switzerland
    Full Name:
    daniel
    The statement at the end of the vid "600LT, ...it has the greater overall appeal as a drivers car!" is what counts for me. A few milliseconds faster or slower? Who cares. The 600LT is what Ferrari was in the past, leading in emotions. My money would go to Woking and not to Maranello.
     
    Gh21631, howydo and IPO1 like this.
  2. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    I see 600lt as a good fallback for those unable to get a Pista, but no way in the world would I forgo a Pista or a 2rs for it. I personally found 600 to be more involving and connected than 720. I was planning to change one of my cars for the 600 but the engine killed it for me. Id really hoped they'd fixed that. It'd be a great car with a 488 engine!
     
  3. theplanner

    theplanner Karting

    Jul 3, 2018
    83
    For me, the 488 is just as good if not better overall package then the 600lt. The lt just has a few more party tricks like the exhaust, doors etc. The lt is a little more edgy on track, but 488 has better sound and throttle response. Sure the steering feel is better than the 488 but only very marginal. In years to come the 600lt will look dated, whereas the 488 will have a more timeless feel.
     
    sampelligrino, crinoid and kandi like this.
  4. Motorwerks

    Motorwerks Formula Junior

    May 8, 2013
    265
    Bloomfield Hills
    Full Name:
    Satish Tummala
    Really?? The 2RS was released after the 3RS.
     
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  5. Motorwerks

    Motorwerks Formula Junior

    May 8, 2013
    265
    Bloomfield Hills
    Full Name:
    Satish Tummala
    "Unquestionably" eh?

    Except go track a "track-focused" Pista and Ferrari voids your warranty once they find out. Porsche embraces you with open arms...
     
    Gh21631, theplanner, howydo and 3 others like this.
  6. theplanner

    theplanner Karting

    Jul 3, 2018
    83
    2RS was launched at Goodwood FOS 2017, 991.2 Gt3RS was launched at Geneva 2018.
     
  7. xskier

    xskier Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2013
    356
    So you are expeting the Pista to have 720hp dead on.... Has to be seen first
     
  8. xskier

    xskier Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2013
    356
    Really wondering how you drive car on tracks. I for my self staying on the powerband. Gt3 Rs around 5-9t rpm, 675lt and 720s from about 4-8t rpm, Gt2 Rs 3,5-6,5rpm. Same goes for the 600lt.
    If you attack the car you never drop out over the powerband, same goes to my former f12.

    Out over powerband most car feels lagy expect if you have the e motor assistance
     
  9. xskier

    xskier Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2013
    356
    Disagree, in what messurmend.
    Therma stability, consumption, throttle response, strighline speed, power delivery

    in what of this points do you expect one engine to be better than the other.
    What is your longterm experience with those engine on the track, or just from street driving and a couple of laps on track
     
    howydo likes this.
  10. xskier

    xskier Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2013
    356
    Very good roundup, and absolutly agree for the V12. The V8 boosted engine are to simular working wise to be any special or better than the others. It comes down to the owner perspectiv. For my self, tracking a lot, cooling is a big factor and thermo stability. Keeping to power up after more than a few hotlapse. Those turbo engine tend to reduce power „to“ quickly when reaching a certain temp window. Maybe the 2Rs water cooling system is not the badest idea neather..
     
  11. xskier

    xskier Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2013
    356
    One thing is clear, to be fast on track you have to adapt your driving to the mclarenstyle. Many things for myself are not working on the track in the 675/720s as i would do with the P. Gtcars. But once you adapt your self to the driving style wich works the „best“ for mclaren you ar serious quick in it.
    I like very much the approach of mclaren.
    Others may see it differant but i really like it.

    Not sure about overstated performance number of ferrari on presscars. Take the F12 or the 812 superfast, both cars coudnt reach there acceleration factory numbers on the Sportauto Supertest.. At least this press cars were not powered up.

    On the other hand it is very nice from mclaren to give us client cars wich over achieved factory acceleration numbers. Could not complain
     
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  12. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    I have read 4 reviews which mention the unmistakeable turbo lag in the 600LT. The engine only comes alive after 5K. I was seriously interested in the car until I read that, which for me represents a disqualifier. Hate turbo lag.

    I have no issue at all with manufacturers who understate their HP figures. I do have a problem with those who exaggerate them or who use goosed up review samples that do not represent the cars sold to customers.
     
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  13. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    The 720S engine, with the exception of the sound, is a remarkable power plant and is primarily responsible for the exemplary performance of the car. To extract that amount of power, with very little turbo lag( I hate turbo lag) is a monumental achievement that cannot be under estimated. I only wish the driving dynamics were more compelling and engaging.
     
    howydo likes this.
  14. kandi

    kandi Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2014
    1,655
    Most people who drove both were able to feel the difference between Ferrari V8TT engine and McLaren engine. If you can't feel the difference then it maybe doesn't matter to you what you drive.
     
  15. IPO1

    IPO1 F1 Rookie

    Dec 23, 2015
    3,575
    People seem to be conflating what models compare with which:

    488 : 720 (Same price point and neither TRUE track cars)
    Pista : 7XXLT (Track cars. THIS is the proper comparison to Pista not 720. The not announced 7XXLT will kill Pista my bet once released)
    600LT : GT3RS (This is best positioned to compare IMHO)

    Someone had mentioned engagement, I loved all of my 3RS's and the steering and handling are razor sharp. But what I really like about Mac is it's still hydraulic (not this fake feel like so many brands these days). For those commenting about the 720, seeing it at the PPF place or 'hearing stories' are nothing like actually driving it. Same can be said of the Pista--I have not driven one (and most here have not either), so how would I be able to truly judge it besides it's looks?

    It's so funny how when Mac gets mentioned in any post (even a mag article), so many here get triggered.
     
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  16. xskier

    xskier Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2013
    356
    No question in difference, you feel it in any different engine. It is about what is so superior in the 488 engine vs 720s, what are exactly the points where the 488 engines shine over the 720s.
    To say the Ferrari and P engine are far superour is in my eyes trolling nothing more or less. Drive them as hard as you can on tracks the whole day and you notice quickly that they all have sooner or later donwsides. Doesnt matter of P/F or Mclaren.
    If engine response is your key factor dont ever grab any turbo cat without e assistance, than only v12/v10 na make you happy
     
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  17. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 3, 2012
    3,053
    UK
    #67 Lukeylikey, Feb 20, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
    I can’t compare the 720 engine but the 488’s motor is much nicer than the 675’s. The 675 has other merits such as a much sharper front end and a very solid feeling against the Ferrari’s more lithe feel - the Ferrari is less stable and dances in your hands a bit, I like that but for track work the 675’s approach works better. But I don’t really think the 488 engine being nicer than the 12C/650/675 is a point of conjecture to anyone who is being honest with themselves. I understand the tech in the 488 engine but I don’t know if the 720 has something similar to justify the ‘no lag’ claims? It is certainly not true of the 675’s engine (which is still a great car by the way).

    I don’t feel it is only the V12 engine that distinguishes Ferrari. They design, engineer and build their own V8s in various forms for various layouts as well as the V12. It is a clear point of difference. Whether that floats your boat depends on your viewpoint but it works for me.

    The 3RS’s motor is nicest of them all IMO (except maybe the V12s but even then it’s close - that howling flat 6 is sensational).
     
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  18. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,209
    Arizona
    There is no lag in the 720. Zero. None. Just as there is no lag in the 488.

    650, 570 terrible lag. 675- never driven it. 600- minimal lag.

    Obvisouly no lag in 3rs.

    I’ve owned some of the cars mentioned above but have driven them all and base my post on personal experience.

    As far as engine superiority- Umm sure, ok I guess.
     
    howydo likes this.
  19. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 3, 2012
    3,053
    UK
    Do you know what Mac have done to achieve that because the basic engine is from the same line?
     
  20. xskier

    xskier Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2013
    356
    Cant agree on your Post. When i floor the pedal at say 1000rpm on my 720s there is lag in the meaing that the Turbos are not in the right rpm band.
    I think we have to seperat lag from pedal input, response of engine and lag from turbo/boost
    Same goes for my Gt2 Rs at 1000rpm there is turbo lag, just because of the very same raison as the 720s has lag.

    Cant command on the 488 pista ad mine has not arrived yet, but i think it will be the same.

    But who is driving this car on track under 3-4t rpm..
     
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  21. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,209
    Arizona
    I don’t know but the drive on the 570/650 was completely different. in fact when I bought my 488 the direct competitor that I was contemplating was the 650. Talk about lag. Hated the drive of the car. The 488 was so much more responsive and visceral.
     
  22. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,209
    Arizona
    Let me clarify- when I say no lag- I’m comparing it to a Porsche turbo or a 650 or a 570. Yes in the 488 and 720 there is a slight slight slight hint if you are at the lower rpms but in essence- virtually no lag that is perceptible to me.
     
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  23. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,209
    Arizona
    Btw- the low rpm issue that you Reference is precisely the reason I don’t drive in auto mode on eithe the 720 or 488. It up shifts too quickly and the drive is not as engaging.
     
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  24. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2017
    1,369
    Full Name:
    T
    Spot on. There is no such thing (yet) as a mainstream automotive turbo engine that has zero lag. I suspect that will change with electric turbos or torque fill from a hybrid configuration.
     
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  25. howydo

    howydo Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2009
    588

    I’ve owned all three and don’t agree. Ferrari does a great job in terms of displaying their engine. Turbo lag in the 488 is minimal but at the expense of torque management and performance.

    I agree that the GT Porsche’s (GT3) have amazing engines but lack low end torque. Not sure how Porsche and Ferrari have “superior engines in every way”? I had an oil leak due to a faulty head gasket on my 488 which required pulling the engine for repair and almost 8 weeks in service. Haven’t had any engine issues with my Mclarens.

    Again, i’d rather a manufacturer underestimate rather than exaggerate their performance numbers. Ferrari has an unquestionable history of bringing out special test cars for magazine comparisons (check our Chris Harris article). Suggesting that Mclaren only has a Hp advantage is ill informed. The 720 is over 200lbs lighter than the 488, has an airbrake, advanced hydraulics, carbon tub, lithium battery to name a few. I love Ferrari and will buy another soon but we all need to stop making excuses and face reality. The 720 with Trofeo R tires will likely be very close to the Pista on the track. It’s not a track focused car but it’s at least a generation ahead of Porsche , Lamborghini and Ferrari with respect to acceleration, braking, turning and chassis...
     
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