Warbirds for sale

I thought this would be a nice thread to start as more people are getting involved in buying warbirds than ever. For half the price of a perfect Daytona you can get this complete but needing overhaul Hawker Fury not including engine. Kind of makes you think classic cars are slightly over priced, although the rebuild bill should make the Ferrari look cheap.

http://courtesyaircraft.com/aircraft/hawker-fury-fb-10-project/?fbclid=IwAR1rkt6eFB1nai3M4i3gqdLMAtk8M-yUn3HzXijFodU1WbCH0RcCfe_v3RY
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This Skyraider is a pretty good value compared to classic cars, if your a pilot. Also a flyable Catalina for $200,000.00 US.

http://courtesyaircraft.com/aircraft/f-azhk-douglas-ad-4-skyraider/#gallery-5
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One more if you have to have jet power $329,000.00 out the door. That's less than a 246 Dino.

http://courtesyaircraft.com/aircraft/n86fr-north-american-f-86f/
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Especially if you are (you're) a pilot....

 

The thing you are missing is the cost of restoration and operation. You will spend many times the cost of a Daytona restoring that Sea Fury, and at least a Daytona or two operating the other ones.

 

I remember just a few years ago the Fuddy Duddy B17 was for sale for $4 million or so. Sounds like a steal, but then again all the replacement parts have to made from scratch pretty much and it likes fuel.

 

There was a time that you could buy a fully operational P-51 for about $50,000 or so. Of course, that was around 1960, before the Warbird movement.

 

A friend of mine traded a P-51 for a Beech 18 back in those days, and figured he got the better end of the deal. He needed something he could make money with!

 

And do not forget, with CGI the chances of renting it for movie or TV use goes to nearly zero.

 

I love the 'spad'. Courtesy always has a good selection of aircraft to drool over. BUT
From the ad

Lets go cheap and assume A&P cost $65/hr, 400 hrs is $26000. Will also burn more (expensive) gas in 1 hr than most would use in their classic cars in a yr. No that is not a pretty good value compared to classic cars.

 

That's still a ton of money. Over $400k inflation adjusted. Easy financing and leasing didn't exist back then so it had to be all cash, too.

 

Well if you fly this as little as a lot of classic Ferrari's get driven gas cost would be no problem. I guess a warbirds cost would be more comparable to a classic Ferrari race car, although initial costs would be a lot less than the Ferrari racecar.

 

$500/hr, no big deal. Price to play.

 

To own and operate something like that, you really need your own full-time mechanic. That's not an airplane you can just pull into any old repair station, and furthermore that 400 hours doesn't include fixing things which break during the operational season-- and they will break.

When you get to warbirds and antique aircraft, you need a mechanic who is willing to sign stuff off that other mechanics might shy away from. It's not unsafe, but it's certainly not how it left the factory and it may require unorthodox ways to keep it airworthy. Most repair stations, and most A&Ps, don't want to to take on that risk.

 

A great colour-scheme and a superb photograph.

The F-86 is a bit less practical than the Dino: not so good for popping to the shop for a newspaper or taking your son to school!

These guys have some great aircraft for sale but for a few $ more:

https://www.platinumfighters.com/

Cheap compared to cars but lots more fun!

 

Very cool site- I've been in a few of those

 

I have been operating Warbirds for 32 years. And I bought several from Courtesy including my P-51 which Mark used to own in the 70's. I have the original bill of sale in 1958 for $958.00.
Really the worst cost is insurance. I was recently quoted $50,000 per year for my Corsair with a $350,000 deductible. So I take a chance and only have liability.
2 full time mechanics and my own hanger help bring the costs to a reasonable level.

The appreciation can be almost as good as cars but a little more predictable. About 10 years go I offered 1.2 for a P-38 that was asking 1.4. That airplane is now worth over 6 million.

There are a lot of reasonably priced Warbirds, such as T-6's and T-34's that are steadily appreciating every year. And very inexpensive to operate.

Some neat facts
Airplanes typically operate in cruise at 65% power, cars on the highway are less then half of that number.

The P-51 Rolls Royce Merlin engine was first designed in the late 30's. By WW2 it had 1,650 cubic inches putting out 1,490 hp, 4 valves per cylinder, overhead cams with 4 valves per cylinder, and a 2 speed supercharger that automatically shifts to high blower around 12,000 feet.

P-51 will cruise as fast as my CJ and the Vne is almost double. And it can go higher then the jet.
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If my dad was still alive I would have bought the P-38 for him. He flew them in North Africa and Southern Italy early in WWII. I can only imagine what it was like with 1000 hp on each wing with 4 50 cal machine guns in the nose with a 20 mm cannon in the middle of the 50s. He had some good stories.

 

Remember one of the flight schools down here, which had an operations manager that liked to do a bit of wheeling and dealing on the side, he came into an Oz built P51 back in the mid 70s at the height of the GA boom. Even with cheap fuel and no landing charges, I think he considered it one of his worst deals - as it sat for a couple of years with no takers.

One less T28 recently. Judging by the first pass, this guy shouldn't have been anywhere near a stick, pity the poor bugger with him.....and very nearly the crowd too!

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=knUSh_1552297124

 

These are your toys? Oh my. Congrats to you. I must say I'm just slightly jealous. Enjoy!

 

Not all of them some are in overflow hangers
Most are on my website
www.aircombatmuseum.com

 

I had a flight in " Worry Bird" in 1985 at the 50th Anniversary of the B-17 at Boeing Field before F4U purchased it. I did a drawing of it that is somewhere in the hangar with the airplane, I think. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Costs can come way down with partners...our two T-28s are owned by, I think, 8 or 9 partners. And, it’s run like a business with all of our annual maintenance scheduled way in advance and factored into our annual assessments, where we pay ahead for our base flying hours for the year. When I joined, I was trained up by the team through my check ride, and now I just show up and fly. I started knowing as much about caring for a warbird as I do about rearing a baby elephant. This was the only way I could fly these things without losing my shirt. The T-28 is a hoot to fly. My boss is another F-16 guy like me, so we have some common frames of reference as he passes granules of his 2000 hours of T-28 experience down to me. It works well for me.

 

How difficult is it to maintain and operate that PT-22 compared to the other warbirds? I’ve always thought they were beautiful planes, and although they’ve gone up in value, they seem to still be affordable.

 

When I was young and single , I worked at an airport in Florida where I was able to fly all of the PT series of airplanes from the PT-13 to the PT-26. I did not like the PT-22 because it just never felt like it wanted to fly and was always on the verge of a problem. Over the years I flew a few more and they fly nice as long as they are moving at a good pace but the Kinner is one engine that I will never trust. I can list six that I have either seen or had friends experience- in flight failures like blowing off jugs or other disassembling events. The latest would be Harrison Ford's engine failure on his PT-22. Personally, I would seek something with a Continental or Lycoming radial. The PT-19 is a lovely flying airplane but to find one with good wood in the center section now might be a problem. The Ranger is a smooth and reliable engine. These comments are personal assessments so there will be those that disagree. Good luck